So what if Snape really is nasty?

[sweettalkeress.livejournal.com]

This is an idea that came to me as I was tearing apart a children's book for another comm.

We all know that it's common in the Harry Potter fandom to portray Snape as mean, morally-degenerate, creepy, cowardly, and pretty much any other negative you can come up with. We on this comm have also spent large amounts of time debunking these assertions, insisting that actually, he's not as bad as he's commonly made out to be.

Here's the thing, though: even if you DID accept that Snape was just that nasty and evil and horrible, that's not his fault--it's the fault of the series. And it doesn't actually paint the series in an especially good light, because it implies that teachers who you don't get along with must automatically be evil or morally backwards. Remember: Harry takes an extreme dislike to Snape from their first meeting, just because Snape was generically snide and intimidating to him. It's one thing for Harry to dislike a teacher, because that happens to the best of us (particularly at the age Harry is). But to portray the teacher as evil because of it?

But that is pretty much the trend in the series. Teachers Harry likes, or who are nice to him, are generally portrayed as heroes or at least reasonably pleasant, whereas those Harry takes a disliking to are nearly always presented as villains: Lockhart, Umbridge, etc. And even when they're not (see, for instance, Trelawney and arguably Slughorn), they're generally treated as rather pathetic, so Harry doesn't have to take them very seriously. The overarching pattern this creates implies that if you don't get along with a teacher it's because that teacher is evil or morally weak-willed, or that it's generally all the teacher's fault that they're not bending over backwards to please you. And while you could argue that this is all the Harry filter, it's never really challenged at any point in the story.

Now, I am all for the notion that teachers should look after the well-being of their students; but the fact of the matter is, students can't always expect that to happen. It's great when it does, but sooner or later every student comes upon a teacher who for whatever reason doesn't click with them, either because that particular teaching style just doesn't work with that particular student, or the institution is corrupt, or the teacher is careless. I know it's happened to me a couple times over. Some of the teachers I've had bad experiences with were careless, but I wouldn't say I thought any of them were evil.

And remember: this is a series that targets children and young teenagers. It doesn't do them any favors to be presenting them with a narrative that states that any teacher they don't get along with is evil. The notion that Snape must be a horrible person suffering from trauma and acting out of some misplaced selfish desire is a testament to the story's inability to portray anything Harry doesn't like in a positive or even a neutral light, not a convincing portrayal of a disagreeable character (and I have many, MANY convincing potrayals of disagreeable characters that I could use as a baseline).

Comments

[germankitty]

There are a lot of good points in what you say.

I still believe that Snape let a childhood grudge (however justified) influence his behaviour towards Harry to an excessive degree (and initially it was based on nothing but physical resemblance and preconceived notions), which -- as the adult, and as an educator/authority figure -- he shouldn't have done.

That aside, I've had a teacher who was ... let's say less than ideal, and almost universally disliked. Granted, his behaviour didn't reach Snape-like proportions, but I know his sarcasm (often slipping into cynicism), strictness and high demands were difficult to take for most of my classmates, especially the more rebellious or contrary-minded ones.

He taught my favorite subject, I was one of the best students in his class, so I got away with some lip and a certain (very limited) amount of casualness that never went into outright disrespect. Others, who couldn't be bothered to pay attention or put in the work, yet still mouthed off at him and showed their dislike of him and his methods, paid for it with lower grades ... which admittedly didn't help matters, because now they felt treated unfairly and whatnot. Talk about a vicious circle ...

Strangely enough, students who had to repeat a year because they'd failed his class almost invariably went from the second-lowest grade to the second-highest (in a 6-grade system) within half a year under different instructors ... and those of us who'd been top in his honors class were better schooled as undergraduates at university than fellow students two years ahead of us. Such was the quality of teaching of a man who had in all honesty a not-very-pleasant personality and let personal likes/dislikes influence at least part of his demeanor in class.

On the other hand, my other honors-class teacher was universally beloved, perfectly friendly and pleasant ... and he drove me up the walls. There were no edges and spikes to rub against that would've spurred me on, I didn't (and still don't) get this type of guy who was always understanding, always forgiving, always NICE to everyone at any time. I did well in the class, but I knew I wasn't doing my best, developed a certain indifference towards the subject and everything about it generally lacked passion.

Twenty-five years later, my son had a similar experience with two other teachers, justly known as the strictest and/or most demanding in school, if somewhat more pleasant in character. All the kids agreed (albeit grudgingly) that despite some personality clashes, they learned the most in those classes.

So, honestly? Give me the not-so-nice, demanding guys anytime -- as long as they know how to teach. If nothing else, dealing with them will prepare someone better for the real world outside of school, where personal likes and dislikes don't matter and only the quality of work counts.

[jana-ch.livejournal.com]

We rarely see Snape actually teaching. The two introductory lectures we are shown—in first year Potions and sixth year Defense—make him seem like an enthralling speaker, but in day-to-day class we never hear about him explaining theory or giving practical demonstrations. It’s always, “Instructions are on the board; start brewing.”

Yet there are hints that he is, in fact, an effective teacher. Umbridge, who does appear to care about education, along with her political motives, notes that his class is unusually advanced for their age. We also see that there are twelve students in Slughorn’s sixth-year NEWT class; there may have been a few more who got the necessary marks but didn’t choose to continue with Potions. That means they all got Exceeds Expectations or Outstanding on their OWLs—nearly a third of Harry’s year who managed to learn enough from mean old Snape to continue to advanced studies in his subject. That is based on a standardized test, not Snape’s supposed favoritism.

Snape may not be nice, but being nice isn’t his job. Keeping the kids happy isn’t his job. Boosting their self-esteem isn’t his job. Teaching is, and he gets the job done, childhood grudge and all.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Severus has the students learn the theory through the essays they are required to write for his class. I'm wondering if he got his students to advance faster than the Ministry expects by careful curriculum design - by choosing which potion to teach when based on which skills they develop in the brewer.

[mage-989.livejournal.com]

I'm wondering if he doesn't use his improved versions too when he teaches. He puts the instructions on the board he could easily modify them from the Ministry standards to have his students achieve better results immediately.

In fact I would have loved to see Snape teach a NEWT level potions class (without the Harry filter) because all the students there have achieved the grades he wants to see and are they because they genuinely want to learn the subject for their careers and so forth. He might be far more open to discussion and applying theory in the classroom - "My instructions differ from the textbook and have given you better results, which one of you dunderheads can tell me why that is?" - rather than hovering over everyone because he has to worry that someone isn't paying attention and going to blow up themselves and their classmates in the process.

[jana-ch.livejournal.com]

Snape’s NEWT students adore him. They go orgasmic with pride when he snarls, “Adequate!”, and wear t-shirts that say Not a Dunderhead, and have a wild party at the end of the year for the Snape Survivors. There is no prouder or more exclusive clique in Hogwarts than Snape’s seventh-year Potions class.

[hwyla.livejournal.com]

Of course Snape uses his improved versions on the board. It wasn't until Hermione had to use the versions in the books that she suddenly was making imperfect potions. She didn't become lax. She no longer had the best instructions.

[oryx_leucoryx]

While that is one possibility, the alternative is that the potions brewed in 6th year are much more fussy, but year 1-5 potions are easy and robust enough that Hermione's technique produced good results with the standard instructions.

Here, here!

[librasmile.livejournal.com]

I went to school with teachers who threw chalk and erasers at the students. And they loved him, lol. *waves to the memory of Mr. Palladino* There was also Mr. Romano who didn't do any of that but was very strict. He kept his students in line. And then there was Sister Joseph Patrice. Oh and Sister Marguerite. Both of them could fight the boys if they had to. But after 2 or 3 acted up and got the snot whipped out of them everyone fell into line. And Sister Donna our principal. We called her My Sheriff Lobo but she was AWESOME. She ran a tight ship. The kids who kept getting in trouble with these folks all had attitude. You know free expression is good and essential but that's not permission to get snotty with teachers. And those were always the kids who didn't learn anything because they were too busy trying be top dog.