The Wizengamot and related bodies
Jun. 13th, 2019 08:42 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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deathtocapslockI've been trying to figure out how the wizarding legislative/judicial branch works, with little luck. In a way, this is actually realistic; anyone who's ever tried to sort through how the various commissions and committees and departments and offices and programs etc. of a large government are related has probably had similar moments of bafflement. But I'd still like a semi-coherent picture of the government of wizarding Britain.
We know that the Wizengamot passes laws, so they're sometimes a parliament (apparently unicameral). But they also apparently act as the highest court. Being tried by "the full Wizengamot" is a big deal.
So far, so good. But here the neat Wizarding Branches of Government for Kids version breaks down.
In OotP, Harry is tried before the full Wizengamot. There are about 50 of them, wearing purple robes with big Ws on them. In GoF, he witnesses three memories of trials and trial sentencings. Karkaroff's is a closed trial, so we can probably assume that everyone on the benches is involved in the trial somehow. There are about 200 of them, and they're not noted as wearing official Wizengamot robes (which would be noticeable). Dumbledore refers to them as "this council," and it seems to be the Council of Magical Law. Then at Bagman's trial, there's mention of "the jury" to Crouch's right, as opposed to the spectators on other sides of the room.
If the Wizengamot is the highest court, why were those three important trials tried before the Council of Magical Law? (Gosh, Harry must really rate high on the threat-meter!) And why is the Council four times bigger than the Wizengamot? How exactly are the Wizengamot and the Council of Magical Law related? Is the Council composed of the full Wizengamot (not in their W robes, since they're not acting solely as the Wizengamot) plus 150-ish other people--and who are those people? Are "the jury" at Bagman's trial the Council (crammed onto one side of the room to make room for spectators), the Wizengamot, or a jury from yet another source?
Looking at the characters whose identities we know makes things even more puzzling. In the 1980s trials, the DMLE head (Crouch) acts as judge and chief prosecutor. At Harry's trial, the Minister for Magic (Fudge) takes on that role. Maybe the Minister is the official highest prosecutor-judge, but may delegate the job to the DMLE head? Or maybe the Minister is the prosecutor-judge for the Wizengamot, but the DMLE head holds that role for the Council?
And the presence of both of those officials means there isn't a sharp division between the legislative/judicial and the executive branches. This impression is reinforced by the initial trial plan for Harry, in which the DMLE head (Bones) was going to hear his case privately in her office. Are most trials handled by DMLE officials? Are medium-sized trials handled by a small panel of DMLE and/or Wizengamot and/or Council members? (Like, there's the Murder Panel, the Arson Panel, the Apparating Without A License Panel...) Oh, and we also hear that the Muggle Protection Act is "Arthur's law," even though he's an office head and not on the Wizengamot. Did he write it and get a Wizengamot member to propose it for him? Can department and office heads propose legislation directly?
Also, we see that DMLE head Amelia Bones is a member of the Wizengamot. She and Senior Undersecretary Dolores Umbridge sit next to Fudge and help question Harry. Are all high Ministry officials--department heads, the senior undersecretary, and the Minister--automatically granted seats on the Wizengamot, or did they acquire the positions separately? How many government positions can you hold concurrently?
In the 1980s trials, Dumbledore and Moody are sitting next to Crouch on the highest bench, but not asking any questions. Are they supposed to be his backups for interrogating the defendants? If so, why are they acting as the peanut gallery instead of doing their job? If the Chief Warlock of the Wizengamot is one of the people eligible for that role (only for the Council, or for Wizengamot trials as well?), maybe Dumbledore wouldn't have been on the bench in OotP even if he were still Chief Warlock because he was acting as Harry's barrister instead (which evidently they don't normally have). And Moody had retired by OotP, so he wouldn't be there as the Auror Office's representative. (Was there another Auror there, like Scrimgeor, and Harry just didn't notice? Do they only get a representative on the Council of Magical Law, but not Wizengamot trials?) I don't think Moody was ever confirmed as the head of the Office, so either that person delegated the job to Moody, or they can pick who gets to be Auror representative. Or maybe Dumbledore and Moody are just so important that they can demand to watch any trials they want from the best seat?
Also, there's always the possibility of procedural changes between 1982 and 1995, just to make things more complicated.
Given that the DMLE head seems to be a hair's breadth from being literally the wizarding world's judge, jury, and executioner, it's no wonder we got a would-be despot like Crouch. The power structure positively encourages it. I mean, the guy was effectively the Chief Justice and the Commander in Chief! At the same time! And maybe had legislative powers too! How do they expect that to work out?
And we also never hear anyone comment that there should have been any legal impediment to Crouch trying and sentencing his own son. They really don't have any sense of conflict of interest, do they?
Anyway. The Wizengamot, the Council of Magical Law, and the executive departments: does anyone have ideas on how to sort out this tangle?
We know that the Wizengamot passes laws, so they're sometimes a parliament (apparently unicameral). But they also apparently act as the highest court. Being tried by "the full Wizengamot" is a big deal.
So far, so good. But here the neat Wizarding Branches of Government for Kids version breaks down.
In OotP, Harry is tried before the full Wizengamot. There are about 50 of them, wearing purple robes with big Ws on them. In GoF, he witnesses three memories of trials and trial sentencings. Karkaroff's is a closed trial, so we can probably assume that everyone on the benches is involved in the trial somehow. There are about 200 of them, and they're not noted as wearing official Wizengamot robes (which would be noticeable). Dumbledore refers to them as "this council," and it seems to be the Council of Magical Law. Then at Bagman's trial, there's mention of "the jury" to Crouch's right, as opposed to the spectators on other sides of the room.
If the Wizengamot is the highest court, why were those three important trials tried before the Council of Magical Law? (Gosh, Harry must really rate high on the threat-meter!) And why is the Council four times bigger than the Wizengamot? How exactly are the Wizengamot and the Council of Magical Law related? Is the Council composed of the full Wizengamot (not in their W robes, since they're not acting solely as the Wizengamot) plus 150-ish other people--and who are those people? Are "the jury" at Bagman's trial the Council (crammed onto one side of the room to make room for spectators), the Wizengamot, or a jury from yet another source?
Looking at the characters whose identities we know makes things even more puzzling. In the 1980s trials, the DMLE head (Crouch) acts as judge and chief prosecutor. At Harry's trial, the Minister for Magic (Fudge) takes on that role. Maybe the Minister is the official highest prosecutor-judge, but may delegate the job to the DMLE head? Or maybe the Minister is the prosecutor-judge for the Wizengamot, but the DMLE head holds that role for the Council?
And the presence of both of those officials means there isn't a sharp division between the legislative/judicial and the executive branches. This impression is reinforced by the initial trial plan for Harry, in which the DMLE head (Bones) was going to hear his case privately in her office. Are most trials handled by DMLE officials? Are medium-sized trials handled by a small panel of DMLE and/or Wizengamot and/or Council members? (Like, there's the Murder Panel, the Arson Panel, the Apparating Without A License Panel...) Oh, and we also hear that the Muggle Protection Act is "Arthur's law," even though he's an office head and not on the Wizengamot. Did he write it and get a Wizengamot member to propose it for him? Can department and office heads propose legislation directly?
Also, we see that DMLE head Amelia Bones is a member of the Wizengamot. She and Senior Undersecretary Dolores Umbridge sit next to Fudge and help question Harry. Are all high Ministry officials--department heads, the senior undersecretary, and the Minister--automatically granted seats on the Wizengamot, or did they acquire the positions separately? How many government positions can you hold concurrently?
In the 1980s trials, Dumbledore and Moody are sitting next to Crouch on the highest bench, but not asking any questions. Are they supposed to be his backups for interrogating the defendants? If so, why are they acting as the peanut gallery instead of doing their job? If the Chief Warlock of the Wizengamot is one of the people eligible for that role (only for the Council, or for Wizengamot trials as well?), maybe Dumbledore wouldn't have been on the bench in OotP even if he were still Chief Warlock because he was acting as Harry's barrister instead (which evidently they don't normally have). And Moody had retired by OotP, so he wouldn't be there as the Auror Office's representative. (Was there another Auror there, like Scrimgeor, and Harry just didn't notice? Do they only get a representative on the Council of Magical Law, but not Wizengamot trials?) I don't think Moody was ever confirmed as the head of the Office, so either that person delegated the job to Moody, or they can pick who gets to be Auror representative. Or maybe Dumbledore and Moody are just so important that they can demand to watch any trials they want from the best seat?
Also, there's always the possibility of procedural changes between 1982 and 1995, just to make things more complicated.
Given that the DMLE head seems to be a hair's breadth from being literally the wizarding world's judge, jury, and executioner, it's no wonder we got a would-be despot like Crouch. The power structure positively encourages it. I mean, the guy was effectively the Chief Justice and the Commander in Chief! At the same time! And maybe had legislative powers too! How do they expect that to work out?
And we also never hear anyone comment that there should have been any legal impediment to Crouch trying and sentencing his own son. They really don't have any sense of conflict of interest, do they?
Anyway. The Wizengamot, the Council of Magical Law, and the executive departments: does anyone have ideas on how to sort out this tangle?
no subject
Date: 2019-06-18 02:24 am (UTC)And apparently the British MoM can somehow "arrange" for the president of another country not to call; I would hope that means asking their magical counterparts to ask that president to reschedule, but given how wizards usually operate, I doubt it.
Anyway, that leaves us with an MoM which might or might not have some tenuous connections to the Muggle government, but in practice operates independently most of the time. They can deal with little things ad hoc more easily than a Muggle government due to their small size, but they obviously still have a large and organized governmental structure. Larger than you would expect, really, which is one reason I think part of their mission statement is providing employment.
no subject
Date: 2019-06-24 07:39 pm (UTC)In Scenario B MOM would be partially financed by muggle gov. That being said there is another problem with that scenario: for muggle government to initially agree to this structure, there would have to be some kind of gain for them and more people would need to know about WW.
So how in this setting MOM would deal with muggle demands? Simple: appease them by banning some more spectacular branches of magic (which would explain why JKR's magic feels so lacklustre) and waiting a few generations before MOM starts to break the agreement. After all in post-epilogue Ron can without any consequences brainwash examiner during his drivers exam and as you mentioned British MOM can make sure that there would be no talks between British Prime Minister and head of foreign country.
Another interesting issue with Scenarios A and B is citizenship.
Under Scenario A magicals do not have British citizenship and under Scenario B they have dual citizenship, but WW's probably takes precedence.
Anyway back to the subject; the main problem that muddles up our attempts at probing MOM is widespread corruption. Characters in these books don't even try to hide that they use less than legal means to get what they want from MOM. Kind of reminds me of some texts from parts of Poland occupied by Russia during XIX century; everybody knew what kind of bribe to bring to whom.