OotP Chapter Eight

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

* That dungeon really is scary, and the chairs that chain you all by themselves is a great touch. Umbridge is there in shadow at first before she's revealed to be Ugly and so Evil. Also a nod to the Pensieve we'll be seeing later.

*Note that both Dolores and Fudge remind Harry of Vernon, JKR's least favorite character. There's no greater evil in this universe than having a thick neck.

*ETA: Reading that paragraph now it makes me think of that article on ferretbrain that wonderfully explained why JKR is not, as she's so often described by fans, the master of Chekov's gun. Chekov's gun says that if you introduce a loaded gun in the first act it needs to go off in the fourth. JKR's rule is just that if you're going to shoot a gun in the fourth act, you have to introduce it in the first. As she's doing here--Umbridge doesn't need to be in this scene, but she must be introduced before she appears, as does the Pensieve.

* Harry's Percy-hate is kind of interesting in that at one point he's goaded into speaking specifically by Percy's nod. He really can't stand him-why? (Percy is so sympathetic in CoS.)

*ETA: Now we know. Harry has to really hate Percy because Percy's going to prove himself really bad later. One of my many most hated moments in DH (this one's easily in the top 3) is when Harry looks at a picture of Regulus Black with the Slytherin Quidditch team and--completely OOC for Harry--identifies with the "sense of belonging" Regulus must feel on the team. Wha...? Harry's looking at a picture of the Slytherin team and identifying with the Seeker? Why? Duh--he's doing that because Regulus is going to be revealed to have turned out okay in the very next chapter!

*From the moment Dumbledore enters you can tell this is all about him. Harry is such a pawn between him in whatever maneuvers he's planning at any time. Fudge is trying to get Dumbledore's creature and Dumbledore is there claiming overship over him while not acknowleging Harry at all. I don't think this has to do entirely with Dumbledore's "I can't act like I know you in front of the Voldemort in your head," particularly since everybody knows Dumbledore favors Harry. It almost reminds me more of that scene in LotR when Frodo talks to Faramir without really acknowleging Sam--except Frodo is following understood social forms and his relationship with Sam isn't creepy and based on lies.

*Dudley doesn't seem to be considered a potential witness. He can't see Dementors, but he could feel them easily enough. When Mrs. Figg comes in they want to check and see if she's on record as a witch, and seem ready to toss out her testimony for being a Squib as well. Not that anyone has prejudice against Muggles besides the Malfoys. Wizards just don't consider Muggles equal enough to take their word on anything.

*And yet, Mrs. Figg seems to be lying anyway, and obviously too. Once again, nobody actually wants a system based on truth and fairness, they just want one that goes the way they like. Mrs. Figg feels the Dementors just like Dudley, but lies because you have to see them because witches can. If you're not magical, you don't count.

*Her lie almost sinks her, and it's only Amelia Bones being impressed with her account of feelings that sways things-impressing Amelia Bones appears to be your only ticket to freedom. They got off because there was "one of us" on the jury, one who was influencial.

*Note that Amelia Bones is "one of us" just as Susan Bones is. Not that blood is important at all.

*Not only do wizards not know anything about Muggles but they don't know about Squibs either. Shouldn't this stuff be known so that Figg can't lie?

*Dumbledore's telling Fudge the laws just rings so painfully hollow. He's exactly like everybody else, pulling out laws to smugly checkmate somebody and stop them from whatever thing they're planning to do, rather than honestly living under a sensible legal system. What do you do if neither Dumbledore nor Amelia Bones believes you? I guess we could ask Sirius Black.

*You know, it seems like if Fudge hadn't gone to the trouble of having a criminal trial for the equivalent of driving without a learner's permit he might have gotten Harry expelled or at least punished in ways he doesn't this way. What's the point of this trial, again? Besides atmosphere?



Designated Hero:
Dumbledore, with a nod to all those pro-Muggle wizards who still seem to consider Muggles something like chimps.

IITS:
Fudge's plan to humiliate himself with this big trial.

Idiot World:
Can't Amelia Bones just take over everything?

Informed Attributes:
Harry's Patronus didn't seem like that big a deal in PoA, back when he did it in front of a crowd. Plus later on every kid in the DA seems to produce one. Is the Informed Attribute Harry's ability to produce Patronus or teach it amazingly well?

Ken and Andrew’s Rule of Plot Holes:
If Fudge knew about the hover charm, why wasn't Harry thwapped back in second year? (Not to mention, why did Hermione seem to get to practice at home, but let's stick with this.)

Nut o’ Fun:
The chair with the scary chains!

My final score: 6

Comments

[horridporrid.livejournal.com]

Oh God, you're right! Their relationship is so odd and unhealthy. I've totally thought that the dark fics with predator!Dumbledore sexually abusing Harry read a lot more true after DH. But then JKR had to go and say that Dumbledore is gay, so now I don't like to make that link because of the horrible gay=pedophile implications... *sigh* Dumbledore: worst gay character ever?

And that just leads up to that creepy speech of Dumbledore's at the end about how much he loves him (even though he's planning on having him killed--so that house cup back in PS was supposed to pay for that, I guess).

Well, the house cup combined with the Prefect badge. That's why Dumbledore was so upset he couldn't give Harry both.

[demosthenes7891.livejournal.com]

Dumbledore: worst gay character ever?

Definitely.

[cressida0201.livejournal.com]

Okay, I've read that over a few times, and I'm still confused...

"I've totally thought that the dark fics with predator!Dumbledore sexually abusing Harry read a lot more true after DH. But then JKR had to go and say that Dumbledore is gay, so now I don't like to make that link because of the horrible gay=pedophile implications..."

Maybe I'm being thick, but why are abuser!Dumbledore fics less disturbing/more desirable if he's not declared gay? *scratches head*

[demosthenes7891.livejournal.com]

Because while pedophilia and homosexuality are not linked causatively, con-Christians (and other fundie groups) tend to link the two constantly. J.K. Rowling's portrayal of Dumbledore is not one of a healthy gay man who also happens to be a mentor to a younger male; Dumbledore is as repressed as a fag can get, and his interest in Harry -- when interpreted in that light -- puts him squarely in the con-Christian "homosexuals all want to sex up young teenagers" bracket. If he had merely had the creepy undertones of Harry-Obsession (and I mean, really, every character in this series is obsessed with Harry. It would have been forgivable), it would have been creepy and wrong, of course, but wouldn't also have been a denigration of all homosexuals.

I suppose it comes down to J.K.'s portrayal of minorities in general: if one evil character also happens to be fat, no problem. But when every fat character is also evil, then there's an issue.

When one gay character in a work has strange proclivities for younger boys, we can accept that as a sort of natural variation among a fair-sized population -- but only if the other fags in the work are presented as having varied tastes (and, frankly, one of the other fags should comment on the inherent creepiness of that obsession). But when the only visible/outted homosexual character in a work has a stereotypical and offensive character trait, it's not only creepy within-text, it's, like, meta-creepy as well, in that it reveals that J.K.'s worldview isn't as peachy-keen as we would have hoped.

[Hopefully this diatribe clears things up a bit. And, since I'm not horridporrid, I can't claim to speak for zir or offer zir thoughts on the subject one way or the other.]

[horridporrid.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's pretty much it. :)

It's not the fics themselves that I was thinking about, it was more that pointing out the "creepy undertones" in the way Dumbledore treated Harry became political because JKR says Dumbledore is gay.

I felt I'd either face the headache of people accusing me of linking homosexuality to pedophilia, or (and I think this would be even worse, frankly) people saying that yes homosexuality is linked to pedophilia "and we're thrilled you agree with us!" And I've been too lazy to take those battles on. ;)

But when the only visible/outted homosexual character in a work has a stereotypical and offensive character trait, it's not only creepy within-text, it's, like, meta-creepy as well, in that it reveals that J.K.'s worldview isn't as peachy-keen as we would have hoped.

She's not been doing herself many favors has she?

[cressida0201.livejournal.com]

Hmm, well, see my response to Demosthenes below. I'm still confused on why Rowling's statement changes your ability to enjoy the DD-molests-Harry fanfics. Not so much on why you don't like them now, but why you did like them before.

[horridporrid.livejournal.com]

I wasn't saying I liked those fics, I was saying that they'd seemed quite left field when I'd run across them pre-DH. But thinking back to them after DH, not so left field anymore. It's now possible to see Dumbledore as that level of creepy, and his relationship with Harry that level of unhealthy.

So I was commenting on the canon relationship, not fanfic. (Though since I used fanfic as an example I can see how I was confusing. Sorry about that.)

[cressida0201.livejournal.com]

Because while pedophilia and homosexuality are not linked causatively, con-Christians (and other fundie groups) tend to link the two constantly.

I get that aspect, but if you're reading a Dumbledore-molests-Harry fanfic, aren't you already picturing him as a gay pedophile? Why does a statement from the author change that from something you (general you) can enjoy into something you can't? Or at least, can't feel good about enjoying? *still puzzled*

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

But when the only visible/outted homosexual character in a work has a stereotypical and offensive character trait, it's not only creepy within-text, it's, like, meta-creepy as well, in that it reveals that J.K.'s worldview isn't as peachy-keen as we would have hoped.

Ahem. I almost hate to point this out, because it's such a politically incorrect thing, but there's another character who, while not outted, has the sort of characteristics that signal "sissy." That's Professor Slughorn, who obviously has a thing for young, attractive students.

Of course, he seems to be as interested in attractive young girls as boys, so it's not quite as in line with
con-Christian mythology of homosexuals, but, if JKR had teased us by saying there was one character in the series who was gay... well, he'd be in the top five. (Along with Lupin, Sirius Black, Hooch, and Harry, of course. :))