deathtocapslock | Deathly Hallows Chapter 34

montavilla.livejournal.com posting in

The Forest Again

The title of this chapter puzzles me, since Harry hasn’t been to the Forbidden Forest once this book. Sure, he’s been to a lot of other forests, but not to this one. So how is he going to it again? Shouldn’t the title be “Yet Another Bloody Forest”?

In case we got confused by the last chapter and took away the message that Snape’s life was more awful than anyone could have possibly conceived rather than the intended one, JKR recaps it for us. The important part of the chapter was that OMG! HARRY HAS TO DIE!

Neither would live, neither would survive. So, that pretty much makes hash out of the Prophecy. With its very carefully chosen words.

Harry hears his heart beating fiercely, valiantly, and wonders how many more beats it has before it stops forever.

He wonders if it will hurt. But, for all his fierce, valiant will to live, it does not occur to him to disobey—to try to run or escape. Why would it? We know that trying to run from Voldemort buys you one or two years at the most. And that’s if you are good at turning yourself into an armchair.

Harry starts wishing he could have died earlier—so that it would over with by now, I guess. He envies Hedwig her quick death. I think Hedwig might disagree with him about that. I’m sure that given her choice, getting killed while swinging around in a cramped little cage would not be it. I never really thought about it, but what a horrible last few minutes she had!

Or, Harry thinks, it might have been better to die while throwing himself in front of a killing curse meant for someone else. Like Lily did. That was an easy way to go.

Man! Everybody got a better death than Harry! Lily, James, Hedwig… nobody else ever had to die knowing about it beforehand! Nobody had to walk up to Voldemort, completely defenseless, and let the Dark Lord kill him for a greater cause.

Nobody except… Señor Snapo!

Harry reflects that the betrayal by Dumbledore was almost nothing. It was all Harry’s fault; he had been too foolish to question his own right of existence. He was only meant to live as long as it took to eliminate Voldemort’s Horcruxes.

So… when he was a baby, Dumbledore already knew that there were multiple Horcruxes? Or maybe just one? Dumbledore looked at baby Harry and thought to himself, As soon as I figure out where Tom has hidden his real Horcrux, the baby gets it!

Yeah, but Snape was disgusting. Because he wasn’t planning to kill a child. He just didn’t care.

How neat, how elegant Harry thinks, for Dumbledore to assign the task of destroying the Horcruxes to the last one of all!

Good try, JKR. But, no. It’s not neat or elegant. It’s idiotic to assign the task of destroying Horcruxes to a guy who doesn’t have 1) the magical knowledge or skill to detect a Horcrux, and 2) the magical knowledge or skill to destroy one.

I suppose one could call it elegant to trick Voldemort into killing the last bit of his soul by making the person holding it chase down the other soul bits. But I wouldn’t use that word. The phrase I would use is needlessly clever. It’s basically Dumbledore showing off.

Harry decides that Dumbledore knew Harry would choose to die, because Dumbledore had taken the time to understand him. No. First off, Dumbledore (with help from Voldemort) created your suicidal heroism. That’s not understanding, that’s manipulation.

He left you with the most unfriendly Muggles in the world—so that you wouldn’t have any attachments outside of the wizarding world. Then he made Hogwarts the fulfillment of any fantasies you might have had about friends, achievement, and plain old specialness. Then he trained you to become heroic and self-sacrificing (when it came to your health or life).

Moreover… sacrificing yourself so that people you care about will live? Not that big a leap. Yes, there are people who won’t die for others. But every mother in this series would die for her child, and all the people that Harry regrets dying tonight--Fred, Lupin, and Tonks—would have done the same. They did do the same, that’s why they’re dead.

And they didn’t even need to be trained.

Harry then thinks some more about dying and realizes that he messed up by not killing the snake, but Dumbledore was smart enough to know that, too, and that was why Hermione and Ron were allowed to come on his quest. That, and the fact that he wouldn’t have accomplished any of it without them.

He looks at his battered old Fabian watch and sees that he has only half an hour left before Voldemort starts killing everyone else. I guess the Prince’s Tale didn’t last that long after all.

Harry finally stands up, and his heart keeps beating wildly, as though it would like a vote in this whole dying business… isn’t it odd how disconnected Harry is from his organs? He’s great with the limbs and all—with those Seeker reflexes—but when it comes to his heart, or his ~~penis~~ ~~chest monster~~ libido, those are foreign elements.

And goodness knows his brain is like some distant relative that only shows up once a year for a visit.

Hehe. Harry puts on the Invisibility Cloak and walks through the castle, feeling like a ghost. The part that cracks me up is that he’s hoping someone will stop him—but of course, they can’t possibly see him through the most Special Invisibility Cloak in history.

At the entrance, he nearly bumps into Neville and Oliver Wood, who are carrying in the body of Colin Creevey. JKR’s explanation for how Colin, a Muggleborn who would have been kicked out of school, came to be here is that he arrived with the other D.A. members. Take that, continuity hounds!

After having Neville help him carry Colin however far it was, Oliver Wood decides he really didn’t need help. He takes the body up on his shoulders and Neville is therefore free (and alone) for Harry to assign one last task to.

Harry pulls off the Cloak, almost giving Neville a heart attack. When Neville suspiciously asks if Harry is going to give himself up to Voldemort, Harry lies in the most unconvincing way and tells Neville that the big snake Voldemort likes has to be killed.

Just in case Ron and Hermione might be too busy. By being dead or something. Harry reflects that this is how Dumbledore would have done it—there were three people originally on the quest, and, once he’s dead, there will still be three. Ron, Hermione, and Neville taking his place.

Yeah, Harry. This is why Dumbledore is an idiot. If it were me? I would have a hundred people gunning for that snake. Ever watch an army of ants take on something bigger? They may be small, but they win because there are a lot of them.

Hehe. Harry stumbles through the instructions, telling Neville that “Just in case they’re—busy—and you get the chance—“

And Neville cuts right in with, “Kill the snake?”

See. This is why Neville rocks. No emo moments for him. He goes right to what needs to be done. Kill the snake? Right. Got it. Later, Harry. I have to go haul in another ten bodies.

So Harry puts on the Cloak again, and comes upon Ginny leaning over a random girl, who is whispering for her mother. I have to tell you that this moment bugged the hell out of me, because—like everyone else in the world—I hate that characters are killed off, as Guy Fleegman says, “to show that the situation’s serious.”

So, it gave me great satisfaction to have Marietta come and play the part of the girl—complete with a heroic death. She did it for all the red shirts in the world.

“I want to go home” the girl cries. “I don’t want to fight anymore!”

As Ginny comforts her, Harry envies the girl for being able to say that. He wants to be stopped, to go home—

And then he realizes that Hogwarts was his home. His first and best home, just like Voldemort and Snape. Except for Snape it was probably more like a prison.

Snape’s family home was pretty terrible (at least, we can infer that it was), but look what happened to him at Hogwarts! Within a few minutes of getting on the train, he had acquired two enemies who used him as target practice for seven years. The culmination of that was that he was nearly killed, while his tormentors were glorified for their clever pranks. He was allowed two or three years outside of the school, then he bound himself to Dumbledore for the rest of his life. A life filled with frustration and fear. Snape seemed a lot happier in that shabby little library at Spinner’s End.

Harry passes on, and Ginny, because she’s his soul mate senses something and turns to look after him. But the specialness of that moment is eclipsed when Harry passes by Hagrid’s hut and thinks about all the great times eating rock cakes that are now gone forever…

Squirrel!

As Harry enters the forest, he comes into a swarm of Dementors and he falters. Then he realizes that he doesn’t have to walk alone and pulls out the Snitch that Dumbledore left him. He kisses it and says, “I am about to die.”

The Snitch opens and the Resurrection Stone, with its Deathly Hallows symbol appears. The stone is cracked. Now, this is the part that confuses me. Did Voldemort put the Horcrux in the stone or in the ring? The ring was cursed, but the stone was cracked… And neither appears to have been completely destroyed.

Horcrux or not, the stone works when Harry turns it over in his hands three times. Four dead people—neither ghost nor flesh—approach him. They are James, Lily, Sirius, and Remus.

I don’t exactly get why Remus is there with the others. James and Lily were, of course, Harry’s parents and they died for him. Sirius was his Godfather. Remus was merely Harry’s emotionally distant teacher for a year.

Now, if you think of Sirius and Remus as a couple, then it makes more sense.

But if they aren’t, then why not Tonks as well? Why not Moody? Why not Fred? Why not Hedwig?

And why, with all the rest, not Snape?

Okay, Harry and Snape hated each other, so maybe not.

But was Remus really closer to Harry than Fred?

And, what with all the portraits and the ghosts and everything—these James and Lily dead figures don’t seem all that different than the ones who came out of Voldemort’s wand. Except this time, they have a bit more time to talk to Harry. Oh, and this time, instead of trying to save him from Voldemort, they’re happy to have him die.

“I didn’t want you to die,” Harry tells him. “Any of you. I’m sorry—“

I guess this is why Snape showing up would be a bad idea. If he had, the line would have read something like this: “I didn’t want you to die. Any of you. Except Snape. I was fine with that one. “

Harry asks if they can walk with him as he goes to Voldemort and they agree. Sirius assures him that no one else will see them, as they are invisible to everyone but Harry. “We are part of you,” Sirius says.

Interestingly, although invisible to everyone else, the ghosties can see Harry through the Invisibility Cloak. Why is this? I don’t know. Magic. Love. Whatever.

They walk through the forest and the ghosties act like Patroni against the Dementors. Harry doesn’t actually know where Voldemort is, so it’s lucky that he stumbles on Yaxley and Dolohov. They let us know that time is nearly up and then conveniently turn around and head back to Voldemort so that Harry can follow them.

As it turns out, the Death Eaters have set up camp in Aragog’s old lair—still covered in giant cobwebs. The narrator notes that the giant spiders were driven out of the area in order to fight for the Death Eaters. Really? How exactly did that happen? Can Death Eaters control the giant spiders that no one else can? I mean, if you drive a wild animal out of its home, it generally doesn’t start fighting for you. It generally starts fighting to get you out.

But never mind. The Death Eaters are all standing around a flickering fire. Just like in every Death Eater fic ever written. Fenrir’s there, which means I ought to go back and change that DVD extra so that Ginny doesn’t kill him. Lucius is there, looking terrified. Check. Narcissa merely look apprehensive. I guess that makes her better than him. I’ll bet the Hat sorted her too soon. There are also two giants, sitting down by still towering over everyone else. Nice image. Still doesn’t justify the camping trip in OotP.

I like the description of Voldemort standing still with his hands folded over the Elder Wand. It makes him seem like a statue of a saint. Strange, perverted religious imagery. Especially since the cage with Nagini in it is floating right behind his head. JKR even describes it as looking like a “monstrous halo.”

Also, Voldemort is described as either praying or counting in his head—Harry’s not sure which. But either, the irrationality of praying or the super-rationality of counting, is apparently evil at this moment.

Voldemort admits that he was mistaken to think Harry would arrive, but Harry calls out to let him know he wasn’t, and steps into the light. The Death Eaters, like any good evil chorus, immediately start making “rabble-rabble” noises.

Hagrid’s voice cuts above the Death Eaters. Harry sees that he has been tied to a nearby tree. I hope it was Grawp who did it.

Hagrid is silenced by someone, and the only other person of note is Bellatrix, who has jumped up and now stands watching Harry and Voldemort like they’re the Williams sisters and this is Wimbleton. Her breast is heaving and I find that incredibly annoying. Good God, woman. Can’t you stop imitating a romance novel cover for a single moment? I swear, this part was written for Helena Bonham Carter.

Hehe. And Bellatrix, at her breast-heaving, open-mouthed panting, blazing-eyed worst reminds Harry of Ginny. Can you imagine? Every time Harry ever has sex with Ginny, he’s going to think of Bellatrix. Wow.

You know, if Harry had become the new Dark Lord, then this would have been Ginny. Except that Ginny, having Hermione to advise her, had dated other boys to make Harry jealous and thus excited his interest. Poor Bellatrix never got that hint, and so Voldemort barely ever looks at her no matter how much she simulates orgasm just from being in his presence.

Is just coincidence or is it another subtle dick joke when Harry thinks about the feel of Ginny’s lips on his… and Voldmort raises his wand? Perhaps this is a moment when Harry and Voldemort’s truly souls become one.

Or maybe it’s just a way to draw out the moment a little longer. Because time does seem to slow down as much as possible before Voldemort casts the inevitable killing curse. Harry sees a flash of green light, and the screen goes black.

*****

I’ve ragged as much as I can about this chapter. That’s my purpose, but I must admit that it is the best chapter in the book. It’s well written, well-paced, and, even though we know exactly what’s going to happen, there’s still tension and suspense.

Well done, JKR. I just wish that more of the chapters had been this good. And, you know, that the plot had been less stupid.

Fan Service:
Remus and Sirius together again!
James and Lily live! Sort of!
Harry dies!

Fan Slappage:
Two giants. That’s it? Where are the Inferi? The werewolves?

DVD Extras:

INT: A CLASSROOM AT HOGWARTS

The room is fairly crowded with people sitting at desks and filling in forms. Marietta Edgecombe and Colin Creevey wander in exchanging puzzled glances with each other.

A young woman with red hair approaches them. It is Lily Potter. She carries a clipboard.

LILY
Hello. Welcome to the afterlife. Please take a seat and fill in this form.

She hands each of them a piece of paper. Marietta takes one, bewildered.

MARIETTA
What’s this for?

LILY
We have to determine where you’re going to go.

Fred Weasley wanders up, his form in his hand.

FRED
Excuse me? What does this mean? “Going On”?

LILY
You have a choice, you see. Most people prefer to go on to the after life. Like it’s a new adventure.

FRED
So, what does “Wait” mean?

LILY
Some like to wait around for their loved ones to join them. I’d be careful about that one. It tends to mean doing administrative work.

She sighs and taps her clipboard.

MARIETTA
(peering at her form)
What is “Ghost”?

LILY
Oh, that’s an option where you take on the form of a ghost. Some people choose that. Cowards, mostly.

MARIETTA
I don’t know. There’s a certain person I could see haunting…

COLIN
“Portrait”?

LILY
That’s only open if you’ve had your portrait painted. Then you get to hang out and tell people what to do.

FRED
You know, the afterlife is not at all what I expected it to be.

LILY
Oh? What did you expect?

COLIN
More famous people.

MARIETTA
Less paperwork.

FRED
More fireworks.

LILY
Well, I guess we can’t always get what we want, can we?

Remus Lupin appears in the doorway, looking around curiously.

LUPIN
Lily Potter?

A joyous cry comes from the back of the room:

SIRIUS
Remus!

He comes loping up, looking young and fit. Lupin stares at him.

LUPIN
Sirius? What are you doing here?

SIRIUS
I came to greet you!

They hug and kiss.

TONKS
(disgusted)
Oh my God. I knew it.

She appears behind them, framed in the doorway.

TONKS (cont’d)
It was him all the time!

LUPIN
Yes.

LILY
(gaping at Sirius)
I thought you were straight.

SIRIUS
(proudly)
Camouflage, baby. Just more reason I couldn’t stand my family.

James Pottter appears from a door in the back.

JAMES
Lily! Sirius! Come on. It’s time.

LILY
Already? (She sighs and puts her clipboard down.) Fill out that form. I’ll be back in a few minutes.

JAMES
Lupin, you too.

The four of them join hands and Disapparate.

Marietta hands a form to Tonks, and the four of them move towards empty desks.

FRED
(starting) Merlin’s pants!

He picks something up from the floor.

COLIN
What is it?

FRED
(looking ill) It’s my brother’s ear.

FADE OUT

Current Mood: hungry

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com

Well, technically, the wand was given the choice of killing either Harry or the Tom fragment (or both).

The last time it had faced Tom it had beaten him all around the Ministry Atrium, so he certainly wasn't the boss of IT.

The last time it had faced Harry, it had hexed him from behind, and even a stick of wood evidently didn't consider that a fair contest.

If you ask me, it threw them both into the "waiting room" and whichever one came out under his own power it would accept as master. Tom had lost too much of his soul/integrety to be capable of doing anything but lying there and howling. Left to himself they would both still be there.

So *MY* new and improved interpretation is that when Harry chose to come back under his own steam, and did it, the wand switched it's alliegance right there in the forest. Tom got hauled back by the last vestige of the connection (and the fact that his AK never touched him), but the fragment died in the exchange.

Makes a damn sight better explanation than trying to claim that the wand obeyed Harry because he had snatched some *other* wand out of another kid's hand, somewhere else a couple of months earlier.

It also points out that the Harrycrux really never had been properly split off from Tom in the first place, since Tom got yanked into King's Cross along with Harry.

Which raises the question of whether the way to get Tom out of the Material world had *always* been to kill Harry, regardless of who did it, or if Albus was right and the connection would only drag him out of the world if he was on the other end of the curse to close the circuit.

But, I suspect that if Harry had chosen *not* to go back, Tom would still be lying there howling in the cosmic Kings Cross, because there wasn't enough of him to make his way back by himself.

From:

madderbrad.livejournal.com

While I agree that the canon scenario is ridiculous, on both logistical and also thematic grounds - who wants to read of a hero who lucks into surviving because he slapped a stick of wood out of the hands of a boy who'd been momentarily stunned by a falling chandelier? - I can't help but grimace at your replacement theory. Granting the stick of wood sentience!?! Yoiks. You're deciding to ignore every single bit of (bad) canon fact about the Elder Wand and whipping up your own out of thin air.

I admit it, I'm lazier than you - I stop at the point right after damning Rowling for her stupid and nonsensical shambles of a story. I start sweating when trying to make sense out of the madness. Silk out of a sow's ear, is that the expression? It can't be done, let's have lunch. :-)

Is there anything that suggests that the Harrycrux is any different from the other Horcruxes? Because I've always thought that this difference - Riddle's being knocked unconscious when Harry was dead/near death/lallygagging in Limbo - was just another "because it would be cool even if it wasn't consistent with my story" moment by Rowling.

the connection would only drag him out of the world if he was on the other end of the curse to close the circuit.

There's absolutely nothing in the canon that supports this, is there? The *whole idea* of the horcruxes is that Riddle would always be able to bounce back because of them, so with Nagini still in the picture voldie!baby would always have come back.

So I continue to believe that Dumbledore's assertion that it was "essential" that Riddle kill Harry was simply unsupported bravado by Rowling intended to convince her readers that the confrontation between the two was necessary (even though it wasn't).

From:

oryx_leucoryx

Is there anything that suggests that the Harrycrux is any different from the other Horcruxes?

Well, it was made accidentally. So any thing could have gone wrong with it. And it isn't clear with which death it was made - but it is possible that it was made with the AK that hit Tom himself which could cause any number of abnormalities.

Or is the question whether the Harrycrux behaved differently from the rest? Since we only really saw the diary and the locket 'behaving' in any way it is hard to tell. For instance the locket was supposed to have some unknown magic of its own before it became a Horcrux. How much of the locket's effects were general Horcrux behavior and how much was the result of a Horcrux interacting with the magic of the locket?

Anyway, Tom had no idea what was going on with the diary or the locket, but some of the time (in OOTP) he was aware of Harry's end of the connection to some degree (yet never figured out it was another Horcrux of his). I wonder how that differed from his interactions with Nagini.

Because I've always thought that this difference - Riddle's being knocked unconscious when Harry was dead/near death/lallygagging in Limbo - was just another "because it would be cool even if it wasn't consistent with my story" moment by Rowling.

It could be argued that this was the result of Tom destroying his own Horcrux - he killed a bit of himself so he had a near-death experience. Or it could be. as Jodel says, the result of the destruction of an abnormal Horcrux.

From:

jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com

Actually, the Harrycrux was *very* different from the other Horcruxes.

Tom was completely unaware of the others once he split them off and stashed them. And they were presumably just as unaware of him. But the Harrycrux *never really separated from him*, or there wouldn't have been that connection between Harry and Tom. I mean, the whole *point* of the Harrycrux was the connection it forged between them.

And they were *both* aware of it, on at least some level, even if one or other (or both) might not know what it was, or both were not aware of it at the same time. But the connection was a factor from one end of the series to the other.

I admit that Albus may have been talking out of his hat when he states that Tom was unaware of the others, and wouldn't know when one was destroyed. But Rowling did at least *show* us that, eventually.

Where the pattern fell apart was in her handling of the other Horcruxes. Because there she was just plain inconsistent, and there isn't really any way to reconcile it. Harry had no reaction to the DIary, when you would think that he ought to have, if the Diary was Tom. He had no reaction to the Diary *revenant*, either, and the revenant even *claimed* to be Tom. This would make sense if once Tom split a part off, it was off, and might as well not really have been Tom any more. But then we have the Locket acting like the One Ring all through the middle of DHs, even though there isn's the slightest indication that it had previously taken Umbridge over -- and she'd been wearing it for over a year by the time they got it off her. The Diary swallowed up Ginny in about three months.

My own suspicion is that Rowling is simply jerking things around to make them seem dramatic. Supressing the Diary so it's identity would be a *surprise*, and enhancing the Locket in order to inject a little *suspense*.

Never mind that she was shooting herself in the foot all the way.

From:

oryx_leucoryx

I don't mind the Elder Wand being partially sentient, since it has to decide when its master was really defeated and when not as it is in canon (for example being able to tell that a planned suicide by ally isn't a defeat).

So you are saying that when Draco disarmed Dumbledore but did not pick the wand up the wand entered a state where it didn't know who its real master was until Voldemort's attempt on Harry in the forest, when it decided Harry had a better claim on it than Voldemort?

From:

jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com

Well, having given the matter a bit more thought, I think that since Draco never claimed it, it was thrown into a state of being something along the order of a "free agent", and would either "choose" its next master, or it would respond bets to the next candadate which made a viable match for *it*.

This is a wand that had passed through a lot of hands, and there were probably a lot of different sorts of personalities that it had responded to very nicely. But it really isn't that much to hypothesize that a certain "echo" of the most recent master might linger if there wasn't a clear transfer of alliegance. And the fact is that Draco may have knocked it out of Albus's hand, but Draco *never claimed it*. In fact it was buried with Albus -- who had been using it for 50 years. That's a long time to channel one specific wizard's magical energies. It would hardly be unreasonable for there to have been some kind of residue. Whether that left it attuned to Harry is inconclusive, but it may have polarized it somewhat against Tom.

But as to Tom and Harry themselves; that wand whuped Tom all around the Atrium. He wasn't *it's* master, and the last time it encountered Harry, Albus had hexed him with it from behind. That didn't merit a vote of confidence either.

But when Tom threw that AK at Harry what the wand found at the contact point was both Harry AND a piece of Tom. And moreover, a piece that *was still connected* to the wizard who had just cast the spell it was sending.

I don't know whether the wand *could* have chosen to kill one or the other at that point. Because it didn't make that choice at all. It shoved both of them to the threshold of the afterlife, and for all that *I* think it reads nicely that when Harry managed to come back from the wand's supposed creator's realm under his own power, the wand decided that this was the Master to obey, for all we know it may have simply planned to go shopping around among the candidates who took it out of Tom's hand if he didn't revive.

Although really, given that there was no reason for Tom *to* revive, now that the connection had been broken, and he couldn't ride back on Harry's shirttails, I think we're going to have to assume that one of the DEs - probably Bellatrix - did something that managed to call him back. Believable enough since the direct AK hadn't touched him, and he'd only been dragged in through the connection with Harry.

From:

ioanna-ioannina.livejournal.com

Or coudn´t it be that neither Harry nor Voldy were masters of the wand, and so it couldn´t work properly and it choose to kill the less living being, both times? I.e. 1/8 of Tom instead of whole Harry?

I know, there are the Death Eaters succesfully killed by Tom, but they did not fight back... so the wand didn´t have any obstacles...?

From:

oryx_leucoryx

Tom didn't say the wand didn't function at all for him, his complaint was that he couldn't do more than his usual level of magic with it. When Harry uses the Elder Wand in the end to repair the holly wand he proves that he really won the wand's allegiance because he performed with it magic Ollivander believed impossible. The question is when did Harry win the allegiance of the Elder Wand and who had it until that moment.

From:

ioanna-ioannina.livejournal.com

Yes. I am just trying to find some road around necessity for a wand to be so much sentient.

I hate the idea of an omniscient wand which knows that Harry took some other wand from Draco etc. etc.

I agree with both of you (I hope) that at the point of the AK in the forest, neither Voldy nor Harry were masters of the wand. So what was it then, why was Harry able to come back? My idea: one AK is like one bullet, it can hit only one life/soul/call it as you wish, so you cannot kill two people with one AK - plus: wand is just an amplifier, pointer, or focuser, if this is the right word, for energy - plus: you need really strong ray of energy to kill with an AK - and when Voldy is not its master, some part of the energy is lost somewhere or the ray is not so focused or whatever... result: it kills the less powerful, less living, more easy to kill one in Harry´s body.
But I like Jodel´s idea of spread damage, too. It does quite the same.
At least in the forest.
In the Great Hall, for me, the situation is mirroring the one in the forest: the spell collides with that Expelliarmus, the ray is not strong enough to continue in its original direction (even if it would have to be, for me, because an AK requires more energy than an Expelliarmus), and it has two possibilities now, a whole soul, what it probably would not be able to kill (as it lost some portion of energy), or a 1/8 soul, less alive, easier to kill, both connected with an arc of energy. So it is attracted to the easier target, turns and kills Voldy.
Without the collision, I think it would kill Harry.

But... yes, now I see it, after this duel (at the latest) the wand has to become to be sentient and choose Harry.
So it does not make the sense I wanted it to. :-((

From:

jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com

Or one can simply turn the whole thing back-to-front and postulate that a wizard needs to adapt to the Elder Wand, rather than the other way around. Specific tool requires specific methods, and all that. Tom was too arrogant to do anything of the sort, so of course he wasn't getting good results. This might even go some way of making sense of Albus's faux-modest claim that he had been "allowed" to use that wand.

Doesn't explain the rebound in the Great Hall, but it covers a lot of the rest.

It's not all *that* difficult to sort-of-account for the forest anomaly if you ignore what Harry has to say about it, and put some thought to it. But the Great Hall rebound really doesn't fit the same pattern, and I'm not convinced of Rowling's claim that it was due to the wand having chosen Harry.

But the rebound in the Great Hall does appear to fit a bigger pattern, that Rowling just left hanging. Tom has *never* been able to kill Harry with an AK. This is the fourth time he's tried, you would think he'd have learned better. Particularly given that the result of all of these attempts has always gone badly for himself. Worse than they ever did for Harry.

I mean it really does make better sense to just agree that Saint Lily's sacrifice protected Harry Potter from any killing curse thrown at him by Tom Riddle, period. Tom could throw *other* curses at him and they'd work. But not that one. The use of Harry's blood gave him a work-around for being able to *physically* touch Harry -- but not throw an AK at him and have it work as designed. The whole "brother wands" fiasco in GoF is now reduced to a smokescreen that obscured the fact that that curse was not going to work against Harry, *anyway*.

Because if the curse had connected in the graveyard, it would have had *exactly* the same result as it had in the forest. Both Harry AND Tom would have been knocked onto the threshold of the afterworld, and Tom would not have been stuck there until he managed to pull himself together enough to get back. And it would have taken a while. (Ah. There. That was the final piece that was missing. He only managed to make his way back from KingsCross because no one had yet killed the snake.)

At that point, Harry might have met his parents instead of Albus. I kind of suspect that they'd have encouraged him to go back at that point, rather than telling him how brave he was to join them.

I suppose now we are supposed to assume that since the Elder wand is an only child, the two spells did a plain-vanilla collision and ricochet. I guess we're all just lucky that they didn't collide at an angle and bounce off to hit any of the bystanders.

(Doesn't explain Harry's Expeliarmus managing to disarm Tom when Tom's own AK killed him. By all accounts Harry ought to have disarmed himself. But then Rowling *does* like to have things both ways.)

From:

oryx_leucoryx

Or one can simply turn the whole thing back-to-front and postulate that a wizard needs to adapt to the Elder Wand, rather than the other way around.

Terri made the point that the wand does change people who use it. The wand amplifies people's hubris (and makes them blind to it). So Albus believes he managed to tame the wand by almost entirely avoiding direct confrontation for years on end (he uses it to disarm and blind Severus in their hilltop meeting, he casts a Stupefy that blasts 'Moody' through a closed door in GOF and he duels Tom at the Ministry, but he did spend the entire first war and much of the second sitting behind a desk) and avoid power for which he wasn't suited by not becoming Minister - despite being 'the man behind the man' all those long years as well as running his own private army. Voldemort's hubris was probably already at full-scale anyway, could the wand have made him any worse? How much of Harry's 'Dirty Harry' speech in the Great Hall was the wand talking?

But the rebound in the Great Hall does appear to fit a bigger pattern, that Rowling just left hanging. Tom has *never* been able to kill Harry with an AK. This is the fourth time he's tried, you would think he'd have learned better. Particularly given that the result of all of these attempts has always gone badly for himself. Worse than they ever did for Harry.
I think there were more: Godric's Hollow in 1981, the graveyard in GOF, at the Ministry (blocked by a statue) in OOTP, 7P battle using Lucius' wand. I'm not sure if Voldemort managed an attempt at AK in Bathilda's house which missed or if Hermione removed Harry from the scene before Tom had the chance. Yes, Tom should have learned. I really wonder what would ahve become of all of Harry's protections had Tom used his second favorite weapon on Harry in the forest - set Nagini on him. Even if Harry could survive the poisoning by some miracle I can't believe he could survive being digested by her. (If Tom had any sense he should have used Nagini to paralyze Harry in the forest, then bring him in front of the school and have Nagini eat him there.)

Because if the curse had connected in the graveyard, it would have had *exactly* the same result as it had in the forest.

Definitely. Even if we accept all of Dumbledore's explanations, since the blood connection between Tom's new body and Harry was already there during the graveyard duel.

At that point, Harry might have met his parents instead of Albus. I kind of suspect that they'd have encouraged him to go back at that point, rather than telling him how brave he was to join them.

This certainly matches the attitude of the shades that came from Tom's wand.

From:

jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com

Well, we really have a pretty wide open field for interpretation. Rowling's interpretation is silly and inadequate -- but then she has a long track record of sacrificing sense for the sake of a joke.

The wand wasn't cooperating with Tom, so it wasn't a *strong* AK, but it was more than enough to kill whatever it hit. Hell, maybe the fact that it hit two entities at once spread the damage, and since the Tom portion was smaller it went *poof* while Harry was merely knocked unconsious and given a choice.

For that matter, we've had the information for a couple of books now that wizards *are* given a choice. Only, they usually aren't given the option of coming back to a potentially-living body.