HBP Chapter Two
Mar. 24th, 2006 11:43 am![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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deathtocapslockHBP Chapter Two
*Many people think Spinner’s End is Snape’s childhood home. In fact he only recently moved to Spinner’s End from his old place at Red Herring Antagonist Curve. Snape would like to thank Kathy at Meta Realty, for finding him his new house. Meta Realty: Where you are, and where you’re going!
*I must remember to post that essay explaining why Spinner’s End is actually located in Bayonne, New Jersey, off exit 14A on the Turnpike.
*Aww. I love the fox. In my head he’s the descendent of Tolkien’s fox who sniffed at the hobbits. Industry has made him sickly and reduced to nosing at fish & chip wrappers.
*Bellatrix makes a louder pop—that’s bad, right? Like her craziness makes it harder to Apparate, or she’s just upset.
*Cissy—how much do I love that Narcissa is called Cissy. I wonder if when she calls her Narcissa she’s trying to be nice.
*Bellatrix is horrified that Snape lives in a Muggle dunghill. Actually, Bella, Bayonne homes are among the best urban housing stock in the state, with residents actively maintaining and improving their homes and property. The city is set to begin a new era of economic development with new technology, new shopping malls and a civilianized ocean terminal.
*Also, since wizards have only ever managed to produce one village in all of England you can step off, bitch or we’ll turn off all the streetlamps and you can stumble around in total darkness.
*See the towering Dickensian Mill Chimney! Narcissa knocks aside two flower sellers and a chimney sweep in her mad dash to get to Snape.
*Hee! I love the idea of Snape opening the door a little and peeking out. Is it the pizza he ordered, or something more sinister?
*Does anyone else imagine when Snape and Bellatrix greet each other (“Snape.” “Bellatrix.”) they sound like Jerry and Newman on Seinfeld? Helloooo Snape.
*We’re told the place looks like a padded cell, but it seems quite cozy, though apparently without any modern conveniences. (Perhaps Snape literally lives in the 19th century?)
*On November 13th Peter Pettigrew was asked to remove himself from his place of residence. That request came from his Dark Lord…. Can two Death Eating men share a house without driving each other crazy? Doo doot doo doot do dooooooo doot doo doo doot doo doo dooooo
*We will now pause while I hum the entire Odd Couple theme to myself and imagine Snape and Peter acting out the opening credits.
*Sometimes you totally have to remind yourself that Peter was supposed to be the Gryffindor’s friend and not just another Slytherin.
*Elf-made wine. Now I’m seeing Dobby and Kreacher wrestling in a vat of grapes. Ew.
*Snape pours out three glasses of blood red wine. I’m just going to say it: Slytherins have style. No matter what they’re doing, they’ve always got an eye towards the aesthetic. Snape’s sallow-skinned greasy-haired look is daring, but it’s intentional.
*Death Eater Snape is amused and cool. Much cooler than Sirius was, much cooler than James would be had he lived—and I like James and Sirius.
*Snape might as well turn to the camera at this point and say, “I’m sure you in the audience have all been wondering about exactly what I’m supposed to be doing here. With the help of my friend Bellatrix, I will now give you a quick overview of Severus Snape and the Philosopher’s Chamber of Secrets Stone of Azkaban’s Goblet of Fire, featuring the Order of the Phoenix."
*I love Snape’s line about Bella’s Azkaban gesture. You know he’s thought it to himself about every stupid Gryffindor stunt since the beginning of time. Yes, your death was wonderfully dramatic. Now I’ll go back to trying to do some actual practical good, shall I?
*What useful information has Snape passed, Bella wants to know. As this information doesn’t really exist, it will just have to remain vague and important sounding, just like all the stuff Snape does for the Order, and all the stuff the Order does when they’re not guarding Harry.
*I love Narcissa sticking up for Lucius. Oh Narcissa, if you only knew what an idiot your sister was at the MoM…
*Which reminds me, what happened to that Bellatrix? She’s surprisingly lucid in this chapter. Did she forget to take her medication before going to the MoM?
*Snape mentions Dumbledore “noticing” if he’d joined forces with the DEs against the Order of the Phoenix. Seems the same could be said on the Tower, where many people think Snape should have gone Matrix on all the bad guys at once while also curing Dumbledore of the poison.
*Speaking of dangers, you were facing six teenagers, were you not? Ooh, burn!
*Yes Snape, Harry Potter. You could have killed him at any point in the past five years. You have not done it. Why? And after that, why didn’t the Fellowship just get the eagles to fly the ring to Mount Doom and drop it into the Volcano. Hmmmm?
*I’d love to know the Dark Wizard Harry stories. I’m surprised they haven’t just gotten stronger over the years as the kid’s temper revealed itself.
*Just for the record, to me it seems like Snape’s clearly avoiding all the important truths that we know. Not seeing ESE!Snape here.
*Snape turns to Narcissa—finally, we can go on with the story we’re actually in. We’ve already had TWO recaps of the previous books from different points of view.
*This is what bugs me about the “Snape doesn’t know what Draco’s task is, he takes the vow to trick the information out of Narcissa.” She’s about to tell it to him and he stops her. He doesn’t have to trick it out of her. And btw, he doesn’t trick it out of her because once she thinks he knows the task she never mentions it.
*So, to tally up the water imagery so far, we’ve got the dirty river you can smell at Snape’s house, Narcissa looking like a drowned person and now Snape’s words making her react as if she’s been doused in cold water. Also she’s got tears sliding down her face. Oh, and they’re drinking wine that looks like blood. If Gryffindors were half as enamored with their element as Slytherins are they’d all have spontaneously combusted by now.
*Bella is so 8 years old. I guess it’s not that surprising she can be beat by teenagers. You know about the plan? You? Nyuh-uh!
*I love how Bella couldn’t care less if Narcissa’s son dies. She’ll get her a puppy. Cheer her right up.
*Awww. When Narcissa says Snape’s always been Draco’s favorite teacher I can’t help but think of CoS!Draco—Why don’t you apply for headmaster sir? You’d be the best! And Snape not being able to hide a smile.
*Gasp! It doesn’t matter to the Dark Lord whether Draco is killed! Honestly, what kind of people are they letting become Dark Lords nowadays if they don’t care about the Draco Malfoys of the world?
*Bellatrix offers up her nonexistent sons to the Dark Lord’s service. It’s very touching.
*More wine, more tears, both spilling on Narcissa.
*Okay, I’ve been reading lots of stuff about Snape being trapped into the bond by Bellatrix. Coming to the close of the chapter I’m seeing Snape completely in control where Bellatrix is concerned. No way he agreed to a vow to get her off his back.
*It also seems like Snape knew what was coming with that third vow, and was already prepared to take care of that twitch.
*Also, I knew what Draco’s task was the first time reading this scene. Didn’t seem like there could be anything it could be besides kill Dumbledore.
Cricket Rule
Day-for-Night
This scenes cry out for this stuff, even in a city.
Hero’s Death Battle Exemption
A lot of Snape’s exposition about his plans could boil down to this one. Harry’s not dead because of the Hero’s Death Battle Exemption.
Idiot World
Now that we’ve seen Voldemort’s biggest supporter, is there any doubt this is an idiot world? When they talk about the DEs it sounds like they’re talking about the bunch of people they used to share a cabin with in the mountains or something. Therefore…
Informed Attributes
We’ll just have to take the book’s word for it that they’re scary.
James Bond Exposition Rule
Oh man, now we have to hear the exposition before he’ll even start the plan, much less finish it! I’m giving a pass on the Plot Hole one since we haven’t really seen the end of things yet.
Misdirected Answering
I don’t know about anyone else, but I kind of got the whole “Snape returned to Voldemort a little late” thing at the end of GoF when he made his dramatic exit. There are a lot of things I’d really rather know in this story other than that.
Nut O’ Fun
Confession: I spent most of the time Snape was telling his story of the past five years checking out the bookcases. Big Anne Rice fan, is Snape.
Final score: 8
Water level: Tears, a river, drowned people, cold water, spilled wine that looks like blood.
*Many people think Spinner’s End is Snape’s childhood home. In fact he only recently moved to Spinner’s End from his old place at Red Herring Antagonist Curve. Snape would like to thank Kathy at Meta Realty, for finding him his new house. Meta Realty: Where you are, and where you’re going!
*I must remember to post that essay explaining why Spinner’s End is actually located in Bayonne, New Jersey, off exit 14A on the Turnpike.
*Aww. I love the fox. In my head he’s the descendent of Tolkien’s fox who sniffed at the hobbits. Industry has made him sickly and reduced to nosing at fish & chip wrappers.
*Bellatrix makes a louder pop—that’s bad, right? Like her craziness makes it harder to Apparate, or she’s just upset.
*Cissy—how much do I love that Narcissa is called Cissy. I wonder if when she calls her Narcissa she’s trying to be nice.
*Bellatrix is horrified that Snape lives in a Muggle dunghill. Actually, Bella, Bayonne homes are among the best urban housing stock in the state, with residents actively maintaining and improving their homes and property. The city is set to begin a new era of economic development with new technology, new shopping malls and a civilianized ocean terminal.
*Also, since wizards have only ever managed to produce one village in all of England you can step off, bitch or we’ll turn off all the streetlamps and you can stumble around in total darkness.
*See the towering Dickensian Mill Chimney! Narcissa knocks aside two flower sellers and a chimney sweep in her mad dash to get to Snape.
*Hee! I love the idea of Snape opening the door a little and peeking out. Is it the pizza he ordered, or something more sinister?
*Does anyone else imagine when Snape and Bellatrix greet each other (“Snape.” “Bellatrix.”) they sound like Jerry and Newman on Seinfeld? Helloooo Snape.
*We’re told the place looks like a padded cell, but it seems quite cozy, though apparently without any modern conveniences. (Perhaps Snape literally lives in the 19th century?)
*On November 13th Peter Pettigrew was asked to remove himself from his place of residence. That request came from his Dark Lord…. Can two Death Eating men share a house without driving each other crazy? Doo doot doo doot do dooooooo doot doo doo doot doo doo dooooo
*We will now pause while I hum the entire Odd Couple theme to myself and imagine Snape and Peter acting out the opening credits.
*Sometimes you totally have to remind yourself that Peter was supposed to be the Gryffindor’s friend and not just another Slytherin.
*Elf-made wine. Now I’m seeing Dobby and Kreacher wrestling in a vat of grapes. Ew.
*Snape pours out three glasses of blood red wine. I’m just going to say it: Slytherins have style. No matter what they’re doing, they’ve always got an eye towards the aesthetic. Snape’s sallow-skinned greasy-haired look is daring, but it’s intentional.
*Death Eater Snape is amused and cool. Much cooler than Sirius was, much cooler than James would be had he lived—and I like James and Sirius.
*Snape might as well turn to the camera at this point and say, “I’m sure you in the audience have all been wondering about exactly what I’m supposed to be doing here. With the help of my friend Bellatrix, I will now give you a quick overview of Severus Snape and the Philosopher’s Chamber of Secrets Stone of Azkaban’s Goblet of Fire, featuring the Order of the Phoenix."
*I love Snape’s line about Bella’s Azkaban gesture. You know he’s thought it to himself about every stupid Gryffindor stunt since the beginning of time. Yes, your death was wonderfully dramatic. Now I’ll go back to trying to do some actual practical good, shall I?
*What useful information has Snape passed, Bella wants to know. As this information doesn’t really exist, it will just have to remain vague and important sounding, just like all the stuff Snape does for the Order, and all the stuff the Order does when they’re not guarding Harry.
*I love Narcissa sticking up for Lucius. Oh Narcissa, if you only knew what an idiot your sister was at the MoM…
*Which reminds me, what happened to that Bellatrix? She’s surprisingly lucid in this chapter. Did she forget to take her medication before going to the MoM?
*Snape mentions Dumbledore “noticing” if he’d joined forces with the DEs against the Order of the Phoenix. Seems the same could be said on the Tower, where many people think Snape should have gone Matrix on all the bad guys at once while also curing Dumbledore of the poison.
*Speaking of dangers, you were facing six teenagers, were you not? Ooh, burn!
*Yes Snape, Harry Potter. You could have killed him at any point in the past five years. You have not done it. Why? And after that, why didn’t the Fellowship just get the eagles to fly the ring to Mount Doom and drop it into the Volcano. Hmmmm?
*I’d love to know the Dark Wizard Harry stories. I’m surprised they haven’t just gotten stronger over the years as the kid’s temper revealed itself.
*Just for the record, to me it seems like Snape’s clearly avoiding all the important truths that we know. Not seeing ESE!Snape here.
*Snape turns to Narcissa—finally, we can go on with the story we’re actually in. We’ve already had TWO recaps of the previous books from different points of view.
*This is what bugs me about the “Snape doesn’t know what Draco’s task is, he takes the vow to trick the information out of Narcissa.” She’s about to tell it to him and he stops her. He doesn’t have to trick it out of her. And btw, he doesn’t trick it out of her because once she thinks he knows the task she never mentions it.
*So, to tally up the water imagery so far, we’ve got the dirty river you can smell at Snape’s house, Narcissa looking like a drowned person and now Snape’s words making her react as if she’s been doused in cold water. Also she’s got tears sliding down her face. Oh, and they’re drinking wine that looks like blood. If Gryffindors were half as enamored with their element as Slytherins are they’d all have spontaneously combusted by now.
*Bella is so 8 years old. I guess it’s not that surprising she can be beat by teenagers. You know about the plan? You? Nyuh-uh!
*I love how Bella couldn’t care less if Narcissa’s son dies. She’ll get her a puppy. Cheer her right up.
*Awww. When Narcissa says Snape’s always been Draco’s favorite teacher I can’t help but think of CoS!Draco—Why don’t you apply for headmaster sir? You’d be the best! And Snape not being able to hide a smile.
*Gasp! It doesn’t matter to the Dark Lord whether Draco is killed! Honestly, what kind of people are they letting become Dark Lords nowadays if they don’t care about the Draco Malfoys of the world?
*Bellatrix offers up her nonexistent sons to the Dark Lord’s service. It’s very touching.
*More wine, more tears, both spilling on Narcissa.
*Okay, I’ve been reading lots of stuff about Snape being trapped into the bond by Bellatrix. Coming to the close of the chapter I’m seeing Snape completely in control where Bellatrix is concerned. No way he agreed to a vow to get her off his back.
*It also seems like Snape knew what was coming with that third vow, and was already prepared to take care of that twitch.
*Also, I knew what Draco’s task was the first time reading this scene. Didn’t seem like there could be anything it could be besides kill Dumbledore.
Cricket Rule
Day-for-Night
This scenes cry out for this stuff, even in a city.
Hero’s Death Battle Exemption
A lot of Snape’s exposition about his plans could boil down to this one. Harry’s not dead because of the Hero’s Death Battle Exemption.
Idiot World
Now that we’ve seen Voldemort’s biggest supporter, is there any doubt this is an idiot world? When they talk about the DEs it sounds like they’re talking about the bunch of people they used to share a cabin with in the mountains or something. Therefore…
Informed Attributes
We’ll just have to take the book’s word for it that they’re scary.
James Bond Exposition Rule
Oh man, now we have to hear the exposition before he’ll even start the plan, much less finish it! I’m giving a pass on the Plot Hole one since we haven’t really seen the end of things yet.
Misdirected Answering
I don’t know about anyone else, but I kind of got the whole “Snape returned to Voldemort a little late” thing at the end of GoF when he made his dramatic exit. There are a lot of things I’d really rather know in this story other than that.
Nut O’ Fun
Confession: I spent most of the time Snape was telling his story of the past five years checking out the bookcases. Big Anne Rice fan, is Snape.
Final score: 8
Water level: Tears, a river, drowned people, cold water, spilled wine that looks like blood.
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no subject
Date: 2006-03-27 09:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-03-27 09:21 pm (UTC)Yes, and that's what Dumbledore asks Harry to believe and what Rowlings asks us to believe, but I find this a little hard. If his mind, will and imagination are quite eager to try, what the heck is this 'heart' of him? Sure it is not his 'conscience', a part of him sorely missed.
And he fantasize of using Cruciatus and hope for some people to die. Can he fantasize to do something he does not want to do?
Also, Dumbledore will tell Harry that he will be able and willing to kill Voldemort just because he is so full of love. But not enjoying it! Thinking of England, then?
no subject
Date: 2006-03-27 09:33 pm (UTC)ROFL!! That must be it. Damn you, you've spoiled me!
he fantasize of using Cruciatus and hope for some people to die. Can he fantasize to do something he does not want to do?
This is a problem, I agree. I beleive we're supposed to get the idea that his inherent goodness is supposed to triumph over his dismally flawed personality (or something) because Nobility Will Out in the end. Or something. Honestly, I don't think Rowling knows either. I suppose we're supposed to see it as sort of Road Rage, where you sit and seethe and think "I want to run this guy off the road" but never do. IMHO though, Rowling blew that take on it out of the water the minute she had Harry actually cast cruciatus, whether it was effective or not. Also, don't forget he had no trouble at all with Sectumsempra (albiet that's not an unforgivable) knowing full well it was "for enemies".
no subject
Date: 2006-03-27 10:04 pm (UTC)Harry running through Hogwarths drenched in water and blood just after having almost killed someone, so he could hide his
precioussprecious textbook, friend, and warfare consultant is to me one of the less endearing moments on the whole series.Also I like to point out that he tried Sectumsempra on Draco, but before "he was considering trying it out on McLaggen next time he came up behind him unawares."
In his reading of HBP, Mark Smith used the words 'depraved indifference'.
no subject
Date: 2006-03-27 10:11 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-03-29 12:13 am (UTC)Even more upsetting than the spell is the fact that Harry planned to sneak up on him and use it. I guess "fair fight" is not a Gryffindor trait, but I'm sure JKR would just say that people like MacLaggan don't deserve a fair fight.
no subject
Date: 2006-03-29 03:43 am (UTC)This after six books of anything but.
no subject
Date: 2006-03-30 08:06 am (UTC)And no, Draco being about to cast Crucio isn't an excuse for that, not even close. As if Harry was rationalizing it that way at all.
(This not taking into consideration the sweet physical assaults and out-numbering. If Harry thinks it's right because it benefits him, then it is!)
Wow, I had suppressed how delusional HP readers could be. And JKR says Draco suppressed his good sides. Seems also readers are equally good at suppressing their morals when they must defend their very special "hero".
no subject
Date: 2006-03-29 08:22 am (UTC)McLaggen is a Gryffindor, after all. This must mean that he is an idiot but a good one, surely? Does he not deserve a fair fight?
By the way, Harry sneaked at the back of unaware people in the hallways all the year, to test the Half Prince's hexes (just like his daddy! He hexes people because he can! Sirius would be so proud). Only Sectumsempra was clearly labeled 'for enemies' so what exactly was he thinking of?
no subject
Date: 2006-03-30 08:27 am (UTC)But the curious thing about Draco is that while he has no problem calling Harry on minor and sometimes imagined flaws, he *never* uses this talent of his to take him down a peg over the serious stuff. He gets beaten to a pulp for being a sore loser? No complaints. He gets split open from a nasty curse for enemies? No complaints.
One does wonder what goes through Draco's mind and why he has this odd relationship with violence. It's not fanon! It's in the text! It's weird to get accusations of fangirlism when you explore an obvious side like this. It seems like I'm supposed to think this is another property of Harry's "purity of heart": his opponents back up and shamefully go quiet in front of the righteous passion of his (violent) rage???
no subject
Date: 2006-03-30 01:09 pm (UTC)Yes, yes, yes! But will Harry listen to him? (And how do you think that Draco will be redeemed or transformed?)
One does wonder what goes through Draco's mind and why he has this odd relationship with violence.
Ehm... wery low-brow answer: because he is a Gemini?
The kind of person to whom a) words are mightier than swords, and cut deeper, so he really thinks that being on the receiving side of a nasty repartee is worse that being punched, and who does not understand that has some weird mental problem, and b) because pointing out loud that something is flawed is to give a service to everyone interested, but being punched flat or almost cut in two is intensely personal, and We Don't Talk Of Personal Things, Ever. (He has no problem about talking of what happened to Montague.)
I guessed that he should have be a Gemini just for this (and his love for histrionics), but then everybody seemed to believe that he was a cruel Scorpio, so I kept my silence. I could have be a prophet!
It's weird to get accusations of fangirlism when you explore an obvious side like this.
Being accused of fangirlism for pointing to something like this sounds weird to me. How can it be?
this is another property of Harry's "purity of heart": his opponents back up and shamefully go quiet in front of the righteous passion of his (violent) rage?
That's what Harry believe, no doubt about it.
no subject
Date: 2006-03-30 04:25 pm (UTC)Maybe he will slam him against the wall (as he's been known to do in canon) a couple of times before coming to reason... or maybe this is just my wishful thinking talking *g*
(And how do you think that Draco will be redeemed or transformed?)
Yup, I'm pretty positive. If there's one thing I'm trusting JKR with, it's Draco's journey, oddly enough. Before HBP, I *saw* in Draco all the markers of an about-to-be-challenged character, but because of her interviews and certain overall tones of the narrative (mostly, certain double standards and the general elitist voice) I doubted she was going there, even though it seemed the most logical route... Now though, even trying to stay clear of my own bias and wishes, I don't see why she would have spent so much time on his character arc if she wasn't planning a transformation. Focusing purely on authorial intent: the direction was *not* the one of a downfall. She made sure to make him as sympathetic as possible. She made him cry to Myrtle. She made him sickly. She made his love for his parents desperately clear. She made Harry pity him. She also gave him both a *rock bottom* (end of the book) and a relatable motivation for doing what he did. Not only he did it for his parents, but he's a beliavable "innocent" (and he's also signalled as the "child" in the second chapter by his mother -- sorry, I'm fond of the archetype), someone who didn't know what he was doing. His emotional journey in HBP was extremely compelling; his outbursts and delusional attachement to the concept of "Glory" only adding to the picture of the "innocent". This added to the fact that he's a perfect opposite-number to Harry, that Harry will need to clash/reconcile with a Slytherin boy, I think it's crystal clear where all the added meat/character build-up is going.
I don't think it's redemption simply because while he *has done* something actually "that bad", finally, JKR made really sure never to make him the Murderer with a M. It was unavoidable for Draco to up his badness if he had to move up in significance inside the narrative, but 1) it's "epic" badness now, not realistic school squabble, which moves him from school-rival to war-piece, and 2) he never really became a villain, because he's a boy growing up, so he has not made his choice yet, not really.
Well, that's the condensed version. Heeeh! Plus, he's a Gemini! Double face and all that.
Btw, and I think your explanation is v. interesting, because I'm really bad at astrology, so I never took that into account... my ideas over Draco and violence are always changing, because I think there's something there but it's such a mystery (sometimes I think an unwilling mystery, meaning JKR didn't mean to go there). I like to play with the idea that while Draco is very aggressive, forceful assertion of power like that does get to him because of his raising at the hands of Lucius. Not that I think Lucius was ever abusive with him, but a father like him (distant, forceful, demanding) tends to leave a mark. It was interesting how HBP had the first moment of rebellion to authority we have seen from Draco (he rebelled to Snape) but at the same time, in the AT scene, he's once again slowly soothed by Dumbledore's gentle authority...
The accusations of fangirlism to dismiss every sympathetic interpretation of Draco are a milestone in fandom. We're "seeing things", it appears. It's interesting how, we're, yes, seeing things but things that are in the Text and some would prefer to ignore... and then those some are the ones who get to be smug. I remember when HBP came out there was a huge movement of denial over Draco's new development. I think that's due to the fact that pathetic!fanon!Draco had been shot once and for all, as much as leatherpanths!Draco had been earlier, but the people who were less fond of Draco were very attached to that counter-fanon. Practically it all came down to Draco being "just a coward who wouldn't kill, damn!" Heh. See, when JKR gives him meat and makes him multifaceted, some reader would very much have preferred the sorta cardboard version (even though I think, he was never that cardboard).
Woah! Sorry, this was long.
no subject
Date: 2006-03-30 05:49 pm (UTC)It was a wonderful surprise, and against whatever she said in her interviews.
It seems that many of us want to have Draco as a mirror image of Harry; so of course our image of Draco depends on what we think of Harry. Those who believe that Harry is a) pure of heart b) brave and c) full of love also believe that Draco is a) marked forever OMG b) to coward to kill but c) wanting to do it.
I'm no so sure that Draco will be the mirror in which Harry will recognize himself; it could be Snape. One can be the catalyst and the other the agent of Harry's change, but who will be what I've no idea. Of course they may also have a destiny that's not limited to be a tool of Harry's own fate.
Heeeh! Plus, he's a Gemini! Double face and all that.
The astrological signs are very strong, recognizable archetypes, so building a character along their lines help to draw a coerent, complete personality.
I like to play with the idea that while Draco is very aggressive, forceful assertion of power like that does get to him because of his raising at the hands of Lucius.
But also Lucius' aggressiveness is not of the physical kind so even by imitation Draco does not learn to strike out with fists and wands like Gryffindors do (and learn from their dads). Violence is not the kind of statement of superiority he is used to.
It was interesting how HBP had the first moment of rebellion to authority we have seen from Draco (he rebelled to Snape) but at the same time, in the AT scene, he's once again slowly soothed by Dumbledore's gentle authority...
It's funny, I found him very resilient to Dumbledore's charms. He analyzes what Dumbledore is telling him, and he is _not_ accepting his word blindly, no matter how desperate he can be to believe him. He make Dumbledore bargain to the end. It is not funny that he is the only character who don't buy the line 'Snape must be trusted because I say so'?
It helps that he has a legitimate father figure, there all his life, so he does not need to try and get one at whatever cost, and that he has just outwitted the headmaster, of course.
The accusations of fangirlism to dismiss every sympathetic interpretation of Draco are a milestone in fandom.
It's all because we lust after Tom Felton! But since I got the impression that you were puzzled by Draco reaction to violence, not pushing it as a good trait, I could not understand what the antifangirls were reacting to in this case.
no subject
Date: 2006-03-31 07:26 am (UTC)But also Lucius' aggressiveness is not of the physical kind so even by imitation Draco does not learn to strike out with fists and wands like Gryffindors do (and learn from their dads). Violence is not the kind of statement of superiority he is used to.
Yes, I agree! It's funny that even the face-stomping was so carefully controlled and almost glib... childish? More a "nya nya" moment than anything scary like Harry's out-of-control explosions. However, I do think that the kind of domination Lucius exerted on Draco imprinted him; left him susceptible to displays of power, which we see again and again in the books.
However you're right that Draco is very resistant to Dumbledore: this is something very likable about him, that he's both proud and needy. In fact, his final surrender to Dumby came more from a place of reassurance of his own goodness than fear. I do think Draco's fundamentally a beta -- there were also some interesting conversations before HBP about how misplaced a kid with his temperament (mouthy, more brainy than muscley, artistic even) was in a warrior culture, but I love the resistence he also puts before some authority figures. It makes him more rounded. Some would call this pull between the longing for a stable authority and the compulsion to assert himself childish, but then again... isn't he a boy growing up? *loves*
Oh, I'm sorry if I gave you the impression I thought Draco's relation with violence a bad trait. I find it fascinating! The tangent about fandom came because well, every exploration of his character that doesn't keep in line with the one-dimensional, badbadbad fanon some had picked at one point was wanky by default... but this has improved after HBP. I think?
(btw, spero che sia okay, mi sono permessa di guardare il tuo profile e sei italiana! Anch'io. :))
no subject
Date: 2006-03-31 09:38 am (UTC)Harry and Draco have mirrored each other for years, it is not just Draco shadowing Harry. But now the symmetry is broken, because Draco is already gone where Harry can only follow. As for Snape: he is the mirror of Harry's personality and history, in a way. Draco is the mirror of Harry's choices. And now both have gone away, so he can no longer measure himself to them. Only to their ghosts in his head...
It's funny that even the face-stomping was so carefully controlled and almost glib... childish? More a "nya nya" moment than anything scary like Harry's out-of-control explosions.
He outwitted Harry, one to one, and that's what counts!
However, I do think that the kind of domination Lucius exerted on Draco imprinted him; left him susceptible to displays of power, which we see again and again in the books.
He is compliant to authority figures, in a way Harry never was. That's because, I think, his first authority figures were good to him and he came to trust them.
And he is beta to his father alpha, because he feels that this is the natural order of things. They are a dynasty, and his moment will come. On the other hand, four armed Death Eaters (and that's an impressive display of power) could not make him kill Dumbledore. The boy is tough that way.
I have some problems with the idea of the Wizarding world as a 'warrior culture' (which one? Republican Rome? Sparta? Samuraic Japan? Late Antiquity Barbarians?) because I get more the feel of the XVII century, when the Wizards left the Muggle world. A warrior culture is more disciplined and well behaved ^_^. And Voldemort is the most modern of them all! A boy from the Forties, through and through.
Some would call this pull between the longing for a stable authority and the compulsion to assert himself childish, but then again...
Of course it's childish, it's what we need to grow up! Another mirror image for Harry, who has his own problems with authority figures, big time. And I found him more childish than Draco in this respect.
(btw, spero che sia okay, mi sono permessa di guardare il tuo profile e sei italiana! Anch'io. :))
^_^ Di Milano. Ma esistono comunità italiane su Livejournal? Quello che stavo cercando di dire in inglese sulla società dei maghi: hai presente 'I promessi sposi'? Se non sei 'l'uomo di qualcuno' non sei nessuno e solo Dio ti aiuta, nonostante milioni di leggi che si applicano solo ai poveracci. Armi dappertutto e liti in cui scappa il morto, ma nessun ordine nella società.
mi dispiace, oggi sono lenta O_O
Date: 2006-04-03 03:12 pm (UTC)I don't disagree that they have mirrored each other, but the way I saw the character evolve, Harry grew up sooner while Draco was still stuck in the schoolboy mentality (as well as he should). This allowed the relationship to shift from a perfect parallel to something more subtle, as if Draco was the one mirror Harry wouldn't acknowledge consciously but would only react to / compare himself to when too distracted to assert himself or think of himself as a man, "above it" -- a psychological reading is the one of Draco as Harry's Jungian Shadow (http://sistermagpie.livejournal.com/14392.html), which was made by Sistermagpie. It's sort of been my platform take on the relationship since I've been in fandom. Draco was (up until HBP) something small and hated that Harry would try to ignore and deny with all his strenght, and yet couldn't. So if Harry is Man, Draco is Shadow.
This (http://sistermagpie.livejournal.com/13851.html) is another great one, where she analyzes the compared relationship of Harry/Draco and Harry/Snape (written around thew same time period, I think).
I don't think, btw, that Draco is gone where Harry can follow: it's not just I don't think their relationship had a perfect balance before (Draco was more of an Irritant to the Hero than an Archenemy), but it's also that I don't think Harry wants to go wherever Draco is supposed to be now (on the verge of a nervous breakdown? Of dark night of the soul? Of adulthood? Re=the last one, Harry's there too -- and has anticipated him, by the end of OOTP).
If darkness is the place Draco is in, then I find Harry is the one more drenched in darkness. Draco, at teh current moment, is as dark as a kid (an innocent) who has just realised what death is beyond play-pretend, no matter what the material circumstances may be.
I didn't mean any specific historical time when I said warrior culture, but rather a social environment that values displays of power and devalues any skill or achievement that doesn't stress the... testosterone of the individual, man or woman or Elf. You know how it is: Ginny is kewl because she can finally hex people for saying one wrong word, Harry is the bully whose bullism we all swoon at for the heroics of it all but especially the awesome pwning of his enemies -- who cares about morals, right? But Draco, while not being big on morals either, is a kid whose strenghts are his cleverness, his words, a certain artistic disposition... the unmanly man in a place like this.
There were actually tones of conversations over this on LJ -- I'll try if I can dig up some links for you, if you want!
Se non sei 'l'uomo di qualcuno' non sei nessuno e solo Dio ti aiuta, nonostante milioni di leggi che si applicano solo ai poveracci. Armi dappertutto e liti in cui scappa il morto, ma nessun ordine nella società.
Interessante! In effetti esiste questa componente. Alla fine con la JKR si può ricondurre tutto al suo beneamato elitismo di fondo per cui appartenere a un certo clan è garanzia di prodezza morale e salvezza da ogni accusa -- sei nato eroe! Almeno nei Promessi Sposi questo stato non era accettato come ideale o nemmeno funzionale.
Non conosco nessuna comunità interessante, mi dispiace!
Re: mi dispiace, oggi sono lenta O_O
From:no subject
Date: 2006-03-31 07:29 am (UTC)outwitted the headmaster
(which I know should be obvious, but so many people are still resistent to just how clever Draco was in this book.)
no subject
Date: 2006-03-31 09:52 am (UTC)Clever and persistent and all alone. I was so proud of him!
no subject
Date: 2006-03-28 01:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-03-28 10:12 pm (UTC)I have no doubt we'll see that one flung again with no pangs of concience.
it's good to be the Elect
Date: 2006-03-30 08:39 am (UTC)Re: it's good to be the Elect
Date: 2006-03-30 05:02 pm (UTC)Don't forget the tantrums.
"I completely screwed up, fell for a stereotypical evil overlard plot (the lived "as a muggle" for his 1st eleven years--he's never seen a Bond movie?) and had my Godfather killed! It's all Snape's fault!"
no subject
Date: 2006-04-03 07:13 pm (UTC)Perhaps it'll be flung right back at Harry, so he actually understands why this spell is so very dangerous and fucked up.
Dumbledore is DEAD – his reign is over, and his enemies' gloves are off. Harry now has to face the reality of his place in the Wizarding World without the protection Dumbledore's tyranny (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny) afforded him. (I'm using that word in the neutral sense, although most peeps know what I think of Dumbles!)
We won't actually know until Book 7 which way the wind will blow, but the persistent cold shoulder/disrespect shown to Hermione by wizards in HPB suggest it might not be smooth sailing for the trio – especially if Ron kicks the bucket.
sorry, i had to get harry's face off my icon
Date: 2006-03-30 08:17 am (UTC)Harry never has this sort of growth because he's supposed to have started already with "love" in his "heart".
In conclusion: the Slytherins being not so nice is their saving grace as characters, also because JKR apparently can't write genuinely nice people. (Except Ron. I don't know what's up with Ron. Wait: maybe he's just not "nice".)
Re: sorry, i had to get harry's face off my icon
Date: 2006-03-30 05:06 pm (UTC)