Why write the *Defense* job as the cursed one?

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

Why did JKR make it be the Defense job that was cursed?  Having a cursed class did allow her to regularly introduce new professors, and I can understand wanting to do that, particularly since the action was mostly confined to the school.  But why the Defense job?

I can think of some unflattering reasons, such as not wanting to write a hero who can really *do* stuff, or not wanting to have to work out what kind of stuff such a hero would *do*. Or maybe she just wanted to ensure that readers would be interested in the class that happened to be cursed, and Defense would naturally get readers interested, particularly young readers.

Are there any really good reasons?  

We never saw Quirrell teach anything, and the book gives the impression that he wasn't teaching well. Lockhart didn't teach the actual subject at all. Lupin focused on Dark creatures, not Dark Arts; he could've been a replacement Care of Magical Creatures professor, instead of Hagrid. He still could've helped tutor Harry to fight dementors. Crouch and Umbridge's classes do work better as Defense classes, but Snape just needed to moved aside for Slughorn to take over Potions.

Frankly, JKR could've made the *History* class be the cursed one. It wouldn't've affected Quirrell, and Lockhart could still have plausibly talked about himself (as an important figure in *recent* history, of course!).

Lupin's only relevant Defense thing was tutoring Harry to fight dementors, which he could have done as a family friend even if it weren't relevant to his subject. It *was* out of class, after all. The boggart scene does contribute to the characterization, but it could've been included by, say, having Lupin premptively substitute for the Defense teacher, who would later substitute for him during the full moon.

Crouch!Moody could have focused the history class on the recent war with Voldemort, and made his class unusually interesting by demonstrating some of the spells used. (Assuming that the actual Defense class couldn't fill in that bit of background info.) He has the right personality for adding a bit of Defense to another class, and Dumbledore would still take advantage of the cursed position to have an Auror around to keep an eye on things.

Umbridge would probably still need to take over Defense, but things could shift at that point. The previous Defense teacher they'd had could have been forced to resign by the Ministry, and Binns could take over History if there was nothing else to do with that job.

And don't tell me that Voldemort wouldn't've been creepy wanting to teach history. Written by a good author, that could be as creepy as anything.

(If Voldemort actually wanted to teach, that is. The books don't make it sound like Voldemort had a very sincere interest in teaching Defense, although I do find that possibility intriguing.)

Not that it has to be History in particular, although that class would have had potential. It's amazing how little JKR did with the Defense class concept, though. It was practically only there to indicate that fighting is a part of the WW, and to excuse Harry from the need to spend time *outside* class training to fight Voldemort.

Comments

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

Ou, yea, exactly!! Why does Quirrell need to go get experience!!!! Nobody else seem to be sent out to get experience did they?

Quirrell needed to get experience because he was inexperienced in the Dark Arts, plain and simple.

That's not the point...unless Dumbles was looking to get rid of a tenured professor that he didn't like, why tell someone who is already working for him, and is at least competent in that position, to drop it, take a year off (and it doesn't matter whether it's to get experience, do advance study, or write a thesis), and then come back to get another teaching position which ostensibly is cursed so that professors only last one year in it?

Seems rather a cruel joke on Quirrell, even without being possessed by Voldie!Brain...if Quirrell hadn't been possessed, and if he'd done at least an adequate job in the position, what would be the excuse to get rid of him at the end of the year?

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

Yes, I get what you're saying or at least I think I do. Unless you're saying that because he was already teaching muggle studies DD wouldn't have told him to leave and get experience for DADA?


After JKR said Quirrell was muggle studies professor I started to read Hagrids comment differently, about Quirrell was okay while he was teaching/learning from books. That almost hinted that muggle studies is a sort of uneventful class and he could teach that out of a book. There isn't anything dangerous in muggle studies like there is with the DA class. So it was sort of a breeze for this young guy.

When Quirrell started to ask and maybe talk to DD about applying for the DADA - Dumbledore must have told him, you need more experience to teach that class. Thus, Querrell would have gone off to aquire knowledge for teaching DADA.

I still think Quirrell was gone the previous year before Harry arrived, at least thats how it makes sense to me.

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

Unless you're saying that because he was already teaching muggle studies DD wouldn't have told him to leave and get experience for DADA?

If my memory is correct, I thought Quirrell decided to read up on the Dark Arts on his own, and then approached Dumbles who told him to get some practical experience in the field, and then he'd give him the job.

IOW, it was Quirrell who first approached Dumbles, not the other way around.


When Quirrell started to ask and maybe talk to DD about applying for the DADA - Dumbledore must have told him, you need more experience to teach that class. Thus, Querrell would have gone off to aquire knowledge for teaching DADA.

If it was Quirrell's idea, and the position is supposedly known to be cursed, then why would Quirrell have wanted to give up his safe position as Muggle Studies teacher to get a job that he knew would only last one year?

If it was Dumble initiating it, what did he have against Quirrell?


I still think Quirrell was gone the previous year before Harry arrived, at least thats how it makes sense to me.

I think so, too. But it still doesn't answer the question regarding why, how ever long he taught Muggle Studies, he suddenly became a contender for DADA, whether at his own instigation or Dumbles. Neither does it answer the question as to why Dumbles would allow Quirrell to take the position, knowing that the guy would be out of a job (or worse) in a year.

Could it be the Quirrell (and presumably a good number of others who took the job on once it was allegedly cursed) either didn't believe it was cursed, or thought they'd be the ones to break it?

[oryx_leucoryx]

If my memory is correct, I thought Quirrell decided to read up on the Dark Arts on his own, and then approached Dumbles who told him to get some practical experience in the field, and then he'd give him the job.

IOW, it was Quirrell who first approached Dumbles, not the other way around.

I think canon can be read either way. All Hagrid says is that he was OK when he was learning from books, but then went off to get practical experience. It isn't clear whose idea it was. Anyway, the part about the twitching being the result of an unpleasant experience with a hag isn't true, it isn't clear if the rest is.

If it was Dumble initiating it, what did he have against Quirrell?


I think the number of willing candidates was already getting thin on the ground. And the position needed to be filled. It is a required subject after all.

Quirrell is described as young. OTOH he seemed to have been aware of the Severus vs James backstory (or did this come from Voldemort who heard of it from Severus himself?)

I think under normal conditions (no political/war-related constraints) it was customary to wait until a teaching candidate was at least 6 years out of school before employing hir so s/he wouldn't teach people who knew hir as a student. To allow for Quirrell to have at least one year as Muggle Studies (or whatever, if you don't take this nugget as canon) teacher and one year for travel before Harry's first year then he is at least 8 years out of school but probably still younger than Severus, who at this point was 13 years out of school. (One can make him a little bit older if one argues Severus aged faster than normal because of his war-time experiences and his mourning of Lily. So Quirrell may only look younger than Severus when he may be the same age or even slightly older. Some people remain baby-faced into their 30s.)

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

Quirrell is described as young. OTOH he seemed to have been aware of the Severus vs James backstory (or did this come from Voldemort who heard of it from Severus himself?)

Well Snape himself is only 31 at the beginning of PS; Quirrell could have been a First Year when Snape was a Fifth or Sixth year, which would make Quirrell 26 or 27 in the book, which could be considered "young" in the wizarding world, especially for a Hogwarts teacher. Even if we go by your "wait for 6 years" rule, Quirrell could have been hired as the Muggle Studies professor when he was 24 and done it for a year before going off for his year of "practical DA experience"...


I think under normal conditions (no political/war-related constraints) it was customary to wait until a teaching candidate was at least 6 years out of school before employing hir so s/he wouldn't teach people who knew hir as a student.

I can't remember reading about this rule anywhere; even if it exists, Dumbles ignored it in taking Snape on as a professor when Severus was only 21 or so. There definitely had to be students in Snape's first couple of years of teaching who were First thru Third Years when he was a Seventh Year student and would remember him.

[oryx_leucoryx]

I can't remember reading about this rule anywhere; even if it exists, Dumbles ignored it in taking Snape on as a professor when Severus was only 21 or so.

I agree it is never stated. It's how I'd expect a school like Hogwarts (ie the only school of a society) to be run. And I did qualify that even if it existed it only held when there were no political constraints. Handling a double agent is a political constraint. :)

Of course so many things go on at Hogwarts that I'd expect to be otherwise, that I'm not sure why my expectations matter.

(BTW as Jodel pointed out in one of her essays, Slughorn mentions taking Felix Felices at the age of 24. To enhance his success on his job interview?)

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

I don't think JKR set up any rules on how the school was run. At least not administrative rules. I don't think she ever went into that much research, time or energy. I don't really think she ever developed the school as a real functioning school.

You can take canon info, because Harry does think about other people every once and a while. He might think about the twins and that they're in Transfigurations on a tuesday. Or he might know that 3rd year hufflepuff are having double potions with Slytherin on a wen morning. I think you get what I'm saying, besides Harry's own schedule there are times he will inform the reader of when something else is going on outside of his classes.

If you take all that info from all the books, and add in Harry's it's very difficult to produce a school schedule for all professors, classes, years, etc.

Now, I know people can produce them for fanfics not using canon. But using actual canon info, it doesn't work.

But I'm talking about going to the lexicon and the books and using ever bit of actual real scheduel info you can find. It's fine for creating harry a scheduel yes.

But if you try to do it for all the professors or lets just say the school itself, using all the canon info. It is near to impossible.

So i don't think JKR ever really developed her school as a working school. It's sort of just there as a background character.

Everything in the stories revolves around Harry Potter - Hogwarts/Snape/McGonagall/Flitwich/Etc/Etc

Everyone in the story revolves around Harry and his scheduel and where he's got to be.

If you try to go outside of that, then the magical world and Hogwarts becomes a disorganized mess.

[sunnyskywalker]

If it were a real school, you would expect the teachers of core subjects like Transfiguration and Charms to have junior assistants to teach the lower years (maybe even TAs drawn from their NEWT classes who would get extra credit for taking every third lecture for years 1 & 2 or something). Otherwise they really ought to have time-turners to manage their schedules - not just for the teaching itself, but for grading 500 essays some weekends (assuming, if there's 600-ish students at Hogwarts and thus an average of around 85 students per year, that if the majority of students drop the subject after OWLs, they'll have around 500 students per subject total, plus or minus a dozen or two). If Hogwarts really had 1000 students like she said originally... ack. Maybe it's closer to 300 or 400, which seems more likely if Harry's year is average-sized, though for all we know it isn't because half the parents of that year's class died in VoldWar I.

I sure hope Dumbledore pays them well!

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

I sure hope Dumbledore pays them well!

Slughorn commented on the pay of a potions professor in HBP at Aaragog's funeral, he said:

Slughorn seemed to be talking more to himself than Harry now. "...seems an awful waste not to collect it...might get a hundred galleons a pint...To be frank, my salary is not large..."

Severus would have still be Head of House and Slughorn would have only been Potions Master - but, it sort of sounds like Hogwarts pay isn't all that much really for the average professor, I can't imagine a head of house gets a huge amount more. I'm sure they get more but still I don't know that it would be a huge amount.

Or else JKR was just showing that Slughorn was greedy or something, but it does seem to suggest that pay for the average Hogwarts professors isn't anything to write home about.

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

And I hit send before I ment to,

On the teaching assistants. We never really got to see a real and true 7th year in action.

During Harry's 7th year, he wasn't even at school and the school was somewhat different due to the Carrows being their upsetting the order of what was normal.

I've kind of wondered if in 7th year, there may be something there as far as teachers gaining high level students as assistants.

We know that 6th and 7th are considered above average classes. As with Snape's class he doesn't except anyone below a certain level of potion knowledge.

So, to me a normal thing would be 7th year, the people who actually make it through 6th year - those students who are able to say, make it into Severus' 7th year. Some would be chosen as assistants and such.

At least that is what would make sense to me, but we really don't see any evidence of that happening.

We dont' see Harry commenting in any of the books about McGonagall's 7th year assistants or thinking how much he dislikes so-and-so because they're a 7th year favorite Potions assistant to Snape.

So, we don't really get that JKR developed the idea in any way.

It's just basicly the world revolves around Harry - I guess if he doesn't notice it doesn't exist (LOL!)

[sunnyskywalker]

Hard to say with Slughorn, because we also know he likes to live comfortably. Without knowing more about the wizarding economy (how much do fancy nightclothes cost? is the food for the parties he throws free because it's on Hogwarts grounds, or does he have to pay for private events, and how much does food cost?), we're pretty much in the dark. Since they also get room and board 10 months of the year, plus free medical care (I would guess - from Pomfrey unless it's something extremely serious), they have low expenses, too, which would complicate the calculations.

I would expect the NEWT-level assistance to assist with the youngest classes if they existed, leaving the professors more time to work with the advanced students. Even Harry ought to notice that his classes from first through third years have assistants present, especially if they're Slytherin! Imagine the dramatic potential... Because there aren't any wizarding universities, and Hogwarts was founded and existed concurrently for centuries at a time when Muggle universities accepted students at around ages 14 or 15, NEWT classes seem to be the rough equivalent of college, not that wizarding education maps exactly onto ours (even if they do use the same academic calendar). Students who have passed their OWLs would presumably be qualified to teach the basics, at least as far as subject knowledge goes, but wouldn't be able to do much assisting for the upper levels since they haven't learned that stuff yet themselves.

But since as you point out we never see Harry complain about Snape's 7th-year assistant deducting points from them during class or anything, I think they probably don't exist - unless they don't actively assist in class but just help behind the scenes grading essays. Maybe that's why Harry doesn't recognize Snape's handwriting in the HBP book - the writing on his essays all along hasn't been Snape's, even if Snape reviewed it and agreed with the assistant's grade, and the writing on the board is magic word processor writing (we see him use his wand for it instead of chalk) in the magical equivalent of Times New Roman font :D

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

If my memory is correct, I thought Quirrell decided to read up on the Dark Arts on his own, and then approached Dumbles who told him to get some practical experience in the field, and then he'd give him the job.

IOW, it was Quirrell who first approached Dumbles, not the other way around.

I can't remember anything in canon that gives much on how Quirrell asked for the job. I don't know that Dumbledore approached him to become DADA, thats not what I was saying.

I think I just pondered the theory (because there is no canon for it either way) That Dumbledore could have sent Quirrell off to get experience, basicly sending him into Voldemorts waiting arms so he would bring Voldemort back.

In one of the books Dumbledore told Harry he was a very good Legelemence ((or however it's spelled)) and I think he even said he can tell when someone is telling him a lie, etc.

Not that that has anything to do with sending Quirrell off but maybe Dumbledore could sense if Quirrell was disatisfied with muggle studies...not that I'm even really thinking thats what happened. (Am getting off track here)

I don't know that Dumbledore would have approached him, I would think it was the other way around. But there isn't really any canon to say how Quirrell asked for the job or why it is Dumbledore felt the need to send Quirrell off other than because the guy needed experience.

But one could theorize anything since there is not really any canon either way as to how all that went down.


If it was Quirrell's idea, and the position is supposedly known to be cursed, then why would Quirrell have wanted to give up his safe position as Muggle Studies teacher to get a job that he knew would only last one year?

That question goes back to my wondering why after 17+ years, Dumbledore could still continue to get a person to apply year after year. To me after 5 years people would be suspitious, 10 people would be wary...I mean it gets to a point where even for a fictional fairy tale it kinda makes everyone in the small magical community look pretty dumb.

If it was Dumble initiating it, what did he have against Quirrell?

Again, I'm not saying Dumbledore did anything. I'm just saying as an idea/theory one could consider, IF Dumbledore was so super manipulative, then he needed Voldemort to come back so harry and Voldie could have the final meeting.

If Dumbledore knew or heard rumors or had info that Qurrell was in that Albania forest, then IF say, Qurrell came to ask for the DADA job - maybe the uber manipulative Dumbledore would have saw in Quirrell the weakness, just like how Voldemort saw in Quirrell weakness.

I don't know if that makes sense, and I don't really think Dumbledore actually sent Quirrell to Voldie.

But we know that Quirrell apparently in canon took a year off to get experience. So one could consider any kind of ideas/theories.


Neither does it answer the question as to why Dumbles would allow Quirrell to take the position

I don't think we need to question Dumbledore on his motives. We'd have to ask, WHY he would give anyone a job he knew was cursed. Doesn't it sort of stink to high heaven that Dumbledore kept the position IF he realized it was cursed.

I mean after 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, etc. etc.

Dumbledore continued to allow people to take up a position that was cursed. That could potentially get them harmed.

Hell Look at Lockhart, whatever Lockhart was, his memory got damanged. Was that the curse, was that just him being stupid.

We know the curse was real so look at the people Dumbledore hires.

Lupin, being one of the supposed good characters. What about Moody, Dumbledore's supposed friend?

How many people exactly filled that position after Voldie cursed it.

Dumbledore had no problem letting all those poeple fill a cursed position, WHY would he feel any differently about letting Quirrell do the same?

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

I think I just pondered the theory (because there is no canon for it either way) That Dumbledore could have sent Quirrell off to get experience, basicly sending him into Voldemorts waiting arms so he would bring Voldemort back.

When you really think about it -- and I think we're all thinking about it in much more depth than Rowling herself ever did -- the whole thing with Quirrell becoming DADA teacher is really strange and doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense.

We're told he was "young", whatever that really means...but it's obvious we're not dealing with a wizard who has years of experience in anything, least of all the dark arts.

He is hired and works as the Muggle Studies professor for at least one year; whether due to his own interest, or at Dumbles' prodding, he reads up on the dark arts, and then indicates interest in teaching the subject.

Dumbles then says, "Sure, but only if you get some practical experience", and then perhaps suggests Albania might be a good place to start.

So here's this young guy, perhaps only 25 or so years old, who doesn't seem to have been spectacular in any "important" wizarding subject and only taught the "soft" subject of Muggle Studies, suddenly showing interest in the other extreme. The sudden interest is strange in and of itself, but then here's Dumbles telling this clueless sadsack that if he takes a year off and heads to Albania to get some "practical experience", then he, Dumbles, will gladly give him a position which is cursed and guarantees that the incumbant teaching it won't last long.

It does almost seem like Dumbles was on a fishing expedition and used Quirrell as bait.


But there isn't really any canon to say how Quirrell asked for the job or why it is Dumbledore felt the need to send Quirrell off other than because the guy needed experience.

It's also interesting that seemingly at no point did Quirrell have anything to do with Snape on the subject, whether at his own instigation, or at Dumbles' suggestion. You'd think that if a young ambitious Muggle Studies professor had a driving desire to teach DADA, that picking Snape's brain would have been high on his list, and one wonders why Dumbles didn't suggest that as a first step before traipsing off to Albania?

Quirrell is shown being rather chatty with Snape at the High Table when Harry first arrives and gets sorted, so it seems that Quirrell and Snape were on at least cordial, if not friendly, terms; so there seems to be no reason Quirrell couldn't have studied with Snape in their off hours, but instead we're told he read books, and then Dumbles sent him abroad to get experience.


That question goes back to my wondering why after 17+ years, Dumbledore could still continue to get a person to apply year after year. To me after 5 years people would be suspitious, 10 people would be wary...I mean it gets to a point where even for a fictional fairy tale it kinda makes everyone in the small magical community look pretty dumb.

Well as someone else pointed out, at that point Dumbles may have been getting desperate and was scraping the barrel to find anyone willing to take the position. But that only explains why Dumbles was willing to give Quirrell a go at the position, not why Quirrell was willing to take the risk.

Unless the pay for that position is much higher than other teaching positions, because it's so hard to fill! LOL

[oryx_leucoryx]

And if it was Dumbles' idea that Quirrell go on his expedition, isn't the timing - the year before Harry was due to enroll - a bit suspicious?

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

And if it was Dumbles' idea that Quirrell go on his expedition, isn't the timing - the year before Harry was due to enroll - a bit suspicious?

My point exactly.

If it was just a matter of desperately needing someone to fill the position because it had gotten to the point of beating the bushes and scraping the barrel to find candidates, you'd thing that Dumbles would have instructed that Snape allow Quirrell to pick his brains regarding dark arts matters, and that he'd have had Snape make the recommendation as to where Quirrell should go to gain "practical experience", if indeed Snape felt that Quirrell needed such experience.

Of course I suppose one could argue that since Snape wanted the position himself, that perhaps he'd sabotage Quirrell's efforts (or Dumbles' worried that he might) -- but like I said in another post, in Book 1 we're shown Snape and Quirrell seemingly getting along fine at the beginning of the school year, so they seem to have previously had an at least cordial professional relationship, not an antagonistic one.

If Dumbles really thought that Snape could accomplish anything in trying to teach Occulemency to Harry Potter, you'd think he'd have had Quirrell and Snape get together for dark arts lessons before having Quirrell go off for "practical experience"...

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

I just happen to go back and look at a couple things, inspired by the Quirrell/Dumbledore/Snape situation we're all talking about.

I happen to end up on the page where Severus and Quirrell are meeting out in the dark forest in the first book.

But let me go foward first, We know that from Deathly Hallows, there is a memory Severus gives Harry that happens in Dumbledore's office. It's from Harry's first year, and it's apparently after Harry's first potions class.

Severus is complaining about Harry - BUT, at the end of the conversation or to end the conversation Dumbledore says this to Severus:

Dumbledore turned a page, and said, without looking up, "Keep an eye on Quirrell, won't you?"

Sooo, at the beginning of the school year; Year 1, practically in the first week of school Dumbledore is already suspitious of Quirrell, suspitious enough to tell Severus to keep an eye on Quirrell.

Then going deeper into Sorcerer's stone, Snape asks Quirrell to meet him out in the forest and the coversation goes like this. And for reading value I'm taking out Quirrells studder, I don't have the patience to type it.

"...don't know why you wanted to meet here of all places, Severus..."
"Oh, I thought we'd keep this private," said Severus, his voice icy. "Student's aren't supposed to know about the Sorcerer's stone, after all."
Harry leaned forward. Quirrell was mumbling something. Snape interrupted him.
"Have you found out how to get past the beast of Hagrid's yet?"
"But Severus, I="
"You don't want me as your enemy, Qurrell," said Snape, taking a step towards him.
"I don't know what you-"
"You know perfectly well what I mean."

((A owl hooted, blablabla HarryHarryHarry))

"-Your little bit of Hocus-pocus. I'm waiting."
"But I don't-"
"Very well," Snape cut in. "We'll have another little chat soon, when you've had time to think things over and decided where your loyalties lie."

Okay, so I posted all that because, it's clear that Severus is doing exactly what Dumbledore told him. And it's interesting to look back and see that Severus is questioning Quirrells loyalty.

So it does suggest he knows that Quirrell has changed and is different from how he was when he was teaching muggle studies.

Severus comes across as the cop in this scene, warning the bad guy he's keeping an eye on him and knows hes up to know good.

To bad Harry got in the way, might have been interesting to see how Severus handled the whole Quirrell/Voldemort thing.

[oryx_leucoryx]

The big question is whether Severus figured out Quirrell was in fact Tom (and not just Tom's servant, or even acting on his own). Because if he did and was asking him about loyalty under the guise of interrogating a dark wizard out for himself, he has balls of steel.

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

The big question is whether Severus figured out Quirrell was in fact Tom (and not just Tom's servant, or even acting on his own). Because if he did and was asking him about loyalty under the guise of interrogating a dark wizard out for himself, he has balls of steel.


It's really hard to tell, on one hand you've got JKR making Severus incredibly clever, but only so clever when it serves her plot.

or, maybe it's just as easy for someone like me to look at Severus as someone who's decided, I'll do what I'm told but screw it for me doing anything other than what I'm told.

And he sorta does fit that mold in certain points throughout canon.

We know that dumbledore tells Severus after Lily's death that Voldemort will return and Harry will be in danger. So we know that back in 1981, Dumbledore has already made the assumption somehow that Voldie will be back. So to me, that has to be at the back of Severus' mind all the time.

And it doesn't matter who would have shown up, it seems to me if Dumbledore would have told Severus to keep an eye on Professor Sprout, Severus would have been damned determined to do that, no matter what he himself actually thought.

Severus seems to have lay all his trust in Dumbledore. It didn't seem to matter what Severus actually might have believed, he was trusting Dumbledore to give him the appropriate information.

Yea, Poor Severus.

But as to your point about Quirrell, I think Severus talks about it in Half-Blood Prince, telling Narcissa and Bellatrix, "I saw only greedy and unworthy Quirrell attempting to steal the stone and I admit, I did all I could to thwart him."

But you kind of have to take his comments there with a grain of salt. On one hand he is given Bell and Cissy his story but he's not telling the whole truth either. Dumbledore had set Severus on the mission to keep an eye on Quirrell.

To me, Severus had to suspect something. You've got Dumbledore telling him, years ago that Voldemort will be back and Harry will be in trouble. You've got Harry showing up for his first year at Hogwarts. You've got this very tempting Sorcerer's stone being moved to Hogwarts and you've got Quirrel, who Dumbledore says Severus needs to keep an eye on the guy.

And Severus knows and is part of the protection on the stone.

To me, a very clever man would have questioned, 1. IF Dumbledore has moved the stone to Hogwarts why is he asking me to keep an eye on Quirrell.

2. If Quirrel is not to be trusted then why is Dumbledore moving the stone here.

3. Dumbledore is moving the stone here and Harry Potter is here and Dumbledore told me Voldemort would be back and want to hurt Harry Potter.


IS it just me or does it look way more likely that Dumbledore did sort of nudge Quirrell in Voldemorts direction.

I mean, I don't know if that was JKR's intent and clearly she would have made that part of Dumbledore's confession in Kings Cross chapter - but then again, there are way to many things going on in Harry Potters first year to say some of that was not planned.

IF Dumbledore knew when Harry Potter showed up there might be trouble, Why the hell would he ever put the stone at Howarts unless it was to tempt Voldemort in.

Harry was already partly a temptation, and we know that Dumbledore needed the two to get together because Harry was supposed to die.

Dumbledore would not view Quirrell any less of a pawn as he would anyone else in his inner circle. Being a pawn certainly didn't work out for Severus did it? Why would Quirrell get better treatment than someone like Severus who was way more useful and a much more talented wizard?

The more we talk about this the more I'm almost willing to start beliving the idea. That Dumbledore might have pushed Quirrel in the Voldie direction, just to get Voldie back so he and Harry could have their meeting.

Dumbledore could have even told Quirrell something about the stone, or given Quirrel info that when Voldie met Quirrel, Voldie found the info about the stone in Quirrels mind, etc.

And that is why Voldie was more willing to come back, to get the stone. And then we have Dumbledore moving it to Hogwarts.

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

Okay, so I posted all that because, it's clear that Severus is doing exactly what Dumbledore told him. And it's interesting to look back and see that Severus is questioning Quirrells loyalty.

So it does suggest he knows that Quirrell has changed and is different from how he was when he was teaching muggle studies.

Yes, I never said that Snape didn't have issues with Quirrell later in the book -- but the fact remains that they seemed friendly enough at dinner the first night of school.

Sometime later -- as you point out, it's after the first potions class, so it may be as soon as the 2nd week of school -- Dumbles tells Snape to keep an eye on Quirrell.

So now we know that Dumbles thinks something is up with Q, but we don't know why. Perhaps something in Q's demeanor, perhaps Dumbles is doing legilmancy on him, perhaps Snape himself picked up on something at dinner that first night and mentioned it to Dumbles.

But other than instructing Snape to keep on eye on Q, Dumbles does nothing. So whether he expected something to happen to Q while he was on sabbatical, or he suspects that something did indeed happen, Dumbles takes a laissez faire attitude and just lets things happen.

I dunno...if *I* was running a school, I'd be more concerned and would take a more "hands on" approach if one of my instructors came back from studying evil stuff and was now acting mighty peculiar.

[oryx_leucoryx]

So now we know that Dumbles thinks something is up with Q, but we don't know why. Perhaps something in Q's demeanor, perhaps Dumbles is doing legilmancy on him, perhaps Snape himself picked up on something at dinner that first night and mentioned it to Dumbles.

Or perhaps his 'sources' told him Tom was no longer in Albania. I wish I knew what those sources were, and since when he had them.

But other than instructing Snape to keep on eye on Q, Dumbles does nothing.

Oh, he showed up to Harry's second Quidditch game, that scared Quirrell from attacking Harry.

And we know he returned Harry the invisibility cloak that Harry left on the Astronomy Tower the night the kids shipped Norbert off. Also we know Quirrell gave Hagrid the dragon's egg in Aberforth's pub (in exchange for Fluffy's secret). So I think Albus knew Quirrell found out how to get past Fluffy around Easter, yet he went to London when he received Quirrell's fake summons. I think it all screams that he wanted Quirrell in the dungeon.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

I think I just pondered the theory (because there is no canon for it either way) That Dumbledore could have sent Quirrell off to get experience, basicly sending him into Voldemorts waiting arms so he would bring Voldemort back.

Maybe Quirrell was a slightly older, more educated, Stan Shunpike, playing at being a DE to impress the girls or others around him. He may have talked himself into wanting the DADA position or, DD could have manipulated him into wanting it based on Quirrell's own preference for Dark Arts. Either way, DD would have seen this weakness in Quirrell's eyes through his Legilimency and either proposed that Quirrell take up the DADA position or agreed to let him have it once he "got experience" (that is, once Quirrell brought what he thought he wanted for a master back from Albania.)

[sunnyskywalker]

Or an older Percy, trying to prove to his own Fred and George somewhere that he was actually cool and tough, so back off. If he's young enough that he had some students who were first years when he got pushed around, he might have felt like they'd pass on the story and he'd never get the students' respect unless he did something cooler like DADA.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

She really could have made Quirrell's story a compelling, tragic one.