(no subject)

[mmmarcusz.livejournal.com]

One thing that bothers me about the twins is that no matter what they do, they get away with it. There are never any consequences. When they sneak Harry out of his house, flying a magic car into a Muggle area, there are no legal consequences and Molly blusters but doesn't do anything. When they more or less ignore how badly Ginny's getting on (as do Percy and Ron), and don't notice she's being bewitched, there's no real guilt.

They give Harry the Marauders' Map - what if he disappeared some day - would they have told the authorities that they gave him a method of sneaking out of school? Or just stayed quiet and hoped things worked out?

They slip Dudley Ton-Tongue Toffees - he could have died, but again no consequences. They win their bet with Bagman (it was never explained how they knew it - maybe they used magical means in an early draft) but never face consequences (given that the Ministry is notoriously corrupt, it's surprising that Ludo is always on the defensive, and never tries to e.g. get Arthur fired or have the twins prosecuted for their illegal testing). And then Harry hands them a pile of cash, because there are no more worthy causes.

In OOTP, they spy on Order meetings (how bad is the security?) but no DEs seem to exploit this. They also drop out of school without qualifications - unlike in real life, where this would lead to months of them sitting about in the Burrow doing nothing, they instead become master businessmen.

In HBP, their shop sells stuff that is obviously dangerous if exploited, but even when the DEs use their powder, no-one blames them for selling it, or questions a society that allows such weapons to be owned.

In DH, Fred is killed, but a heroic death in battle. It would be much more likely for him to be killed in one of the twins' experiments gone wrong - this would actually force George to undergo some sort of reflection or growth as a character - but as it is, it confirms that Fred was great and everything the twins did was great.

Comments

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

Ah, but see, that shows Percy is just totally deserving of disrespect.

He could have hexed the Twins to pieces for attacking him. But he didn't. You know, like Snape held his fire to keep from hurting Harry in "The Flight of the Prince" chapter in HBP, and to keep from killing Minerva in "The Sacking of Severus Snape" chapter of DH.

You deliberately hold back from hurting someone's who's attacked you?

COWARD! COWARD!

In fact, we see that the rot goes so far that Percy won't even beat up on SLYTHERINS when he has a free shot.

Sigh. The Twins hide their faces in shame and despair. That anyone pretending to be related to them should sink so low....

But it's true, alas for Gred and Forge's sensibilities.

Look at Percy's behavior in CoS ("POlyjuice Potion"): Draco sneers,
"And what are you doing down here [sneaking around the dungeons], Weasley?"

And all Percy does is to say, "You want to show more respect to a school prefect! I don't like your attitude!"

Now our Best Role Model, the Head Boy of "you couldn't really expect James to take that lying down, could you?" fame, would have (at least given that there were no witnesses who had authority to report him to staff or sweet Lily) hexed a stinking Slytherin second year into the hospital wing for a WEEK for questioning his right to sneak around Slytherin territory.

That's the behavior we like to see!

Not that COWARDLY refusal to attack someone weaker.

*

And now for a totally off the wall observation.

Why the hell was a romance between Pureblood-but-blood-traitor Gryffindor swot Percy and Muggle-born Ravenclaw (therefore automatically-swot) Penelope so much of a doomed Romeo-and-Juliet affair that the only place they dared meet was down in the Slytherin dungeons, well away from either of their houses? We know that Ginny, later, wasn't ashamed of dating Ravenclaws... at least, non-Mudblood ones like Michael Corner.

Of course the twins would make unpleasant jests about whomever Percy dated. So what?

Surely... I mean, the Weasleys are a family of blood traitors, right? Surely that must mean they've courted Muggle-borns before? Even though, by sheer random chance and through no choices ever of their own, the current crop of offspring still ranks among the small (1 out of 4) part of the Wizarding population that can be classified as "Purebloods"?

Oh.

There's no canon evidence for any previous Weasley/Prewett marital alliances with non-Purebloods. And in fact, conclusive (crashing) evidence that no previous such courtships (if any tentative outreaches ever occurred) ever resulted in either a marriage or children.

Ron has no Muggle relatives.

None.

None whatsoever.

Or at least, none that he's ever been allowed to meet or know of.

Not a one of his older relatives has EVER married into a family with ANY embarassing Muggle in-laws. Embarassing relatives, yes, he owns the usual plethora, when the family closets are disgorged of people like Aunt Muriel and Uncle Bil. But three-quarters or more of the WW have Muggles in their households somewhere--where were Ron's, when Bill's wedding shakes loose all the family disgraces to haunt the respectables?

Nowhere. They don't exist. Ron has no embarrassingly-Muggle relatives.

The closest he comes is Molly's Squib second cousin who became an accountant. That disgrace to the Prewett (or whatever) name probably did marry a Muggle (what else could he have done?--to what better could a Squib accountant have aspired?), but the Weasley family never talks about (or to) Molly's family shame. They certainly don't recognize the accountant's spawn as FAMILY. Just as, y'know, Draco's family probably didn;t recognize Andromeda's spawn as such.


So Percy is probably the first in his family, ever, to date a Muggle-born, insisting on her merits. And he hides this from his family as the trangression that it is.

How does he justify his overwhelming need of secrecy to Penelope? "No, I'm not ashamed of you, really I'm NOT, but--"

What could possibly follow that "but"?

[oryx_leucoryx]

'-but I need to protect you from my psychopathic brothers'?

'-it will be better when I'm on my own, making my own living, promise!'

Whatever he said, she was still on friendly terms with him in POA. But in GOF he was still living at home while keeping a job, and no sign of Penelope.

[danajsparks.livejournal.com]

----Why the hell was a romance between Pureblood-but-blood-traitor Gryffindor swot Percy and Muggle-born Ravenclaw (therefore automatically-swot) Penelope so much of a doomed Romeo-and-Juliet affair that the only place they dared meet was down in the Slytherin dungeons, well away from either of their houses?

It could simply be that they wanted to ensure privacy and there were some good secluded spots in the dungeons for making out.

Also, I do actually think it's quite likely that Percy would have kept hidden from his family the fact that he had any girlfriend, regardless of her blood status, in order to avoid being teased mercilessly about it by his brothers.

Ron wound up marrying Muggle-born. Did his family have a problem with that?

----Even though, by sheer random chance and through no choices ever of their own, the current crop of offspring still ranks among the small (1 out of 4) part of the Wizarding population that can be classified as "Purebloods"?

Despite what Rowling said in her interviews, I personally believe that what she shows us in her books is a world in which the percentage of purebloods is quite a bit higher. I have a post from a while back about this http://deathtocapslock.livejournal.com/134189.html


----There's no canon evidence for any previous Weasley/Prewett marital alliances with non-Purebloods

I think that we don't have proof either way. All it takes to be classified as a pureblood is to have four magical grandparents. Harry's children are purebloods even though their great-grandmother was a Muggle-born. So the Weasleys could have Muggle-borns on their family tree and still be considered purebloods.

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

Okay, yeah, if I'd been related to the twins (who make me wildly appreciative of my own disfunctional family) I'd have hidden my first romance, no matter who s/he was.

Still, sneaking around Slytherin--when both of them apparently dislike the house, and would probably expect that house to blackmail them if caught--it seems an extreme reaction.

Regarding Ron's courtship of Hermione, Percy would have broken the ice. Being the second child openly to break a taboo is very different from being the first. (And then there's the fact that Hermione is demonstrably superior in nearly every particular to what Won-Won could have snagged on his own merits without a Muggleborn's succumbing to Pureblood mystique. Find a ten-"O" Owl Pureblood who's also healthy, sane, brave, and not physically disfigured, who'd consider Ron a prize worth snatching!)

Thanks so much for the link to your post about percentage of Purebloods--I just went and read it, and all of the comments, and my head spins. Yes, if we throw out that interview neat 25-50-25, what JO SHOWS isn't much near that, is it? And I usually do go on what Jo SHOWS rather than what she mouths off about.

However. Regarding the Weasleys and Bill's wedding....

There are multitudes of people there, including, apparently, rather remote family connections. (Molly and Arthur, if not Bill and Fleur, had invited Bill's [rich] great-great aunt and enough second and third cousins on the Weasley side that Molly's great-aunt Muriel doesn't find it suspicious that some random redhead is presented to her as yet another of Ron Weasly's "cousins.")

Let's imagine Pureblood (if we've correctly identified WW class structure) James Sirius Potter's marriage, or half-blood Rose Weasley's. If all great-aunts (much less great-great-aunts) and second cousins were invited to James's nuptials, Petunia & Vernon, Dudley, and Dudley's family would all be attending. And one only needs invite grandparents to have Muggles prominent at Rose's.

Unless, of course, the connection had been cut.

But Bill's wedding is, so far as Harry observes, Muggle-free. No one is dressed normally and looking around in astonished appreciation at the floating champagne bottles.

So not a one of the guests present has ever married a Muggle. And if anyone present is Muggleborn, they've cut the connection with "that side." And Molly...

Well, we know for a fact that Molly has relatively close Muggle relatives. That Squib second cousin, who became an accountant and married a Muggle woman. If remote Pureblood connections are being invited to this family celebration, why not remote Squib/Muggle ones?

Ron in CoS claimed that there was no such thing, really, as a "pureblood" nowadays, that most wizards are really half-bloods, that if they hadn't married Muggles (somewhere along the line) they'd have died out.

But being able to NAME a Muggle ancestor or relative? ASSOCIATING with them? Obviously, flat out wrong.

[oryx_leucoryx]

BTW are you familiar with that fic by duj in which Percy faked his death, dropped out of the wizarding world and went to live as a Muggle with the initial assistance of the accountant relative? He actually found out how airplanes stay up (among many other things).

[sunnyskywalker]

I'd like a link to that!

[oryx_leucoryx]

The link is Everything I've Ever Done: Reunion.

[oryx_leucoryx]

I posted the link in a separate post, but until it shows up, you can find the story on fanfiction.net The author is duj, the title is "Everything I've Ever Done: Reunion". Google should lead you there. It is a sequel to a SSHG story that diverged from canon after OOTP. There is a list of who is married to whom and the ages of their children as an extended footnote to the first chapter.

[sunnyskywalker]

Well, they're still dating in PoA, aren't they? And now that Ginny's spilled the beans, they seem to be more open about it - Percy telling them about the bet, then dashing off after Penny calling her name. That doesn't really say "secret romance" or awkward breakup to me. So maybe they were both just relatively private people who didn't want to go advertizing the minute they got together, and Penelope probably didn't have a very high opinion of the twins as a Ravenclaw, and it's not like they would want to make out in either of their common rooms even if they're allowed to hang out in each other's common rooms. Also, given how oblivious Harry is and how little the Houses seem to talk (so Fred and George might not hear either - do we ever seem them just chatting with Ravenclaws?), it's possible all of Ravenclaw knew about them the whole time. And maybe the Hufflepuff prefects.

As for GoF onward... again, how would Harry know? And with Percy being out of Hogwarts and out of the house during the day, he'd have plenty of opportunity to contact Penny on his own, without his brothers bugging him about it. They could have lunch, she could send letters to his office so they didn't have to worry about Molly or the Twins intercepting the mail and being nosy, etc. Or it's possible they also just drifted apart after graduation, as first romances often do, and parted on friendly terms and moved on. Like normal mature people.

[danajsparks.livejournal.com]

----Or it's possible they also just drifted apart after graduation, as first romances often do, and parted on friendly terms and moved on. Like normal mature people.

The end of their relationship might have had something to do with Voldemort coming back to power and eventually taking over Ministry. Maybe they broke up because they disagreed about Percy's continued support of the Ministry. Maybe she had to flee to another country. Maybe she was killed for being a Muggle-born, but hopefully not.

[sunnyskywalker]

In that case, it could have lasted until early DH, unless at some point between Harry's article in OotP and then she thought the Ministry was already going the wrong way (not pro-Voldemort, but not a good way). Hard to say. (And it's not like his family would know, not being on speaking terms.) Then I suppose it depends on whether she thinks Percy is supporting a regime that will oppress her, or whether she thinks he's trying to stay where he can get the latest updates and warn his friends (maybe he helped her flee the country). Or maybe she knows what Percy's talking about when he said it was hard to get out and forgives him for that. Or maybe in GoF she moved abroad for an awesome job opportunity, which would be a much happier alternative!

[dungeonwriter.livejournal.com]

As much as I would have loved him to hex the twins into the next district, I do appreciate that he is older and more powerful than them, and that it’s not right to respond with violence or misuse magic. I wonder if the twins knew it subconsciously and relished in the fact that they could do what they liked, knowing that their brother would always be there for them if they needed, but they could abuse him as they liked till then.
And that goes double for when he refuses to do much more than warn Draco. He could have happily hexed a second year (I doubt he could have taken points or I imagine he would have) and no one would have done much. I do think prefects are of little use in Hogwarts if they can’t discipline other houses and taking points from your own house hurts everyone, but Percy does his best given Dumbledore’s edicts, the essay which you proved definitively that if you aren’t caught red handed, you are home free.
James would have likely cursed the stuffing out of Draco and left him there to suffer until someone found him. He would have had no problem having his attack dog Sirius team up with him on a single defenseless student.
Why are so many HP characters bullies, when push comes to shove?

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

Oh, hey, I personally LIKE Percy for not hexing the Twins into next Wednesday every time they annoy him (which is every day). I'm just saying, Percy isn't being a proper Gryff in exercising such restraint.

As to the Twins, they are fish, aware of every nuance of the pressure surrounding them on every side. They know to the minutest measure what they can do without incurring overwhelming reaction/retaliation in return....

They know Percy's limits, and McGonagall's, and Snape's, and Dumblodore's, and the Ministry's. They're bright, they are.

If they'd been up against James? I think they'd have folded. His limits were farther out than theirs.

[dungeonwriter.livejournal.com]

Seriously, why doesn't JKR see bravery as showing restraint? The bravery to endure? I know you approve, hehe, I just don't get why the book seems to think so.

Hahaha, I love how you put it. They know exactly where to draw the line, and yes, compared to James, they're tuna fish.

I believe James's limits would make the twins cower. No matter what, I doubt the twins want Percy dead. They're thoughtless, insensitive mean and annoying but I can't see them consciously risk Percy's very life. They might do it accidently. I also can't see them truly hurt him physically in any lasting way. No matter how much I dislike the twins, had Percy truly gotten hurt, the twins would feel terrible.

James?

James would have been a fine Death Eate.