A Question

[ladyzenobia.livejournal.com]

Hello! I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but since I came across the topic here, I thought it would be appropriate.

I was reading oryx_leucoryx's wonderful GoF chapter commentary and it was mentioned that Bellatrix/the Lestranges managed to talk their way out of Azkaban before attacking the Longbottoms. This is actually something I've come across before on various forums and when reading theories, but I can't find anything about it in the books. I tried looking for old interviews and it isn't mentioned there either as far as I can tell. So I was just wandering, how do you know this? I'd be very grateful if someone gave me a quote or something :)

Also, this is my first post here, so I'm sorry if I've made some grave error.

Comments

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

Actually, I wrote a fiction in which Dumbledore asks Phineas on 11-1-1981 to account for Sirius having defected to Voldemort and betrayed his best friend, and what the Blacks thought was:

Sirius joined the Order because he thought that's what his parents would hate most.

But they thought he was sincere, that he sincerely repudiated Voldemort.

So when they realized Regulus has become a DE, repudiated that allegiance, and been killed for it, they sent a message to Sisius saying Regulus had ended on his side, and they too now hated Voldemort. Thinking that would make him willing to reconcile with the family.

Instead, they think now, it made him change sides.

Anything to annoy Walpurga, even betraying his friend.

And they think him capable of that because they knew (and so did Dumbledore, Remus, and everyone else left who knew Sirius well) that he'd betrayed Remus, another supposed best friend, when he was sixteen, in order to "get" a schoolboy rival. The "prank" endangered Remus as well as Severus. What Harry blasted Snape for doing at the end of POA, exposing Remus and forcing him out of Hogwarts, was the LEAST of what Sirius exposed his supposed good friend to when he set Severus up.

[nx74defiant.livejournal.com]

The "prank" endangered Remus

I really got annoyed that Remus seemed to have no problem with Sirius after the prank. Remus should have been furious. If Hagrid was expelled for releasing the monster believe to have killed a student, what would have happen to Remus who would have been the monster to kill a student? If James hadn't acted in time Remus life could have been over or ruined.

Perhaps that is way Remus believed Sirius was responsible for the Potters deaths. Remus knew that Sirius could have easily been responsible for his death.

We never see Sirius apologizing to Remus or showing any concern for the danger he placed Remus in.

Do you have a link to the story?

[sionna-raven.livejournal.com]

We never see Sirius apologizing to Remus or showing any concern for the danger he placed Remus in.

We meet them in 93/94; the 'prank' happened in 75/76. If Sirius apologized, he'd done that in the past. There's no reason to repeat that. It's settled between the two. To be honest that's between the two friends and nothing they have to explain to Harry.

The 'Sirius found it amusing...' explanation comes from Lupin. Sirius himself doesn't confirm it and stays rather vague about his reasons.
I've been writing fics from Sirius POV for nearly two years now and of course I had to come up with some more complex motivations. I'm writing with a partner who writes the Severus' parts. In the beginning of our fic (post-war AU) she didn't like Sirius at all, she has changed her mind. Basically I'm doing the same with Sirius as we here generally do with Severus. I give him the benefit of doubt and work on the premise that he's a good natured person deep inside and makes his mistakes for good reasons.
In short Severus' spying on the Marauders meant that they couldn't risk to keep Remus company. Remus wouldn't let them. He said he was suffering severely during his transformation at this time and only the company of his friends made it bearable. Sirius wanted to scare Severus to stop him from spying. This is a reason Remus would certainly accept as good intention. The flaw in the plan - BTW Severus made the same mistake; he knew or at least expected to find find a werewolf at the end of the tunnel - was that Sirius didn't expect Lupin to be able to get out.
"It was my trust in Dumbledore's magic that nearly got you killed."
Added irony the Marauders only got the idea for their night trips after that, because up to that night it didn't occur to them that Lupinwolf could leave.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Similarly, Severus knew the marauders were safe in the presence of what he suspected of being a werewolf. He may have thought that was because of Dumbles' design of the protection (perhaps the werewolf was caged or chained) rather than a special ability of the marauders.

[sionna-raven.livejournal.com]

Like I've said above they both made the same mistake. A cage or chains weren't even necessary. Dumbledore could have used a magic barrier e.g. a "werewolf line" similar to the age line in GoF; something the Marauders wouldn't have noticed but taken its existence for granted.

My main problem for the purpose of the fic was to find an explanation why Sirius never seems to have regretted the incident and still thinks 17 years later Severus deserved it. I took my inspiration for that from arguments of Snape haters/Marauder fans. They question Severus' intention to enter the tunnel. Though he didn't know for sure, he at least expected to find a werewolf at the end of the tunnel, so why did he follow Sirius' taunt and what did he want to do?
If their fans can believe that Severus wanted to seriously harm Lupin, I can imagine the Marauder themselves to believe it too.
That actually would make the whole situation worse. From their POV it's a logical conclusion and one which seems to be confirmed by Dumbledore's way to handle the matter. For all we know Sirius' punishment for the 'prank' wasn't very severe. He probably only got a few detentions for nearly exposing Lupin. If Dumbledore believed that Severus was an innocent victim, Sirius should have been expelled. He is not, so Dumbledore believes that Severus tried to curse or even kill Lupin.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Of course Dumbles had to keep the whole thing quiet because he did not want the Ministry and the parents of other students to find out that he was harboring a werewolf at the school (well the werewolf was just outside school grounds during his transformation but I doubt that would convince anyone who cared), so that would be one reason not to expel Sirius. Terri has a fic where Remus kills Severus and Dumbles still covers it all up (but unfortunately for him Severus returns as a ghost).

[sionna-raven.livejournal.com]

That's what we as readers know. The Marauders are Gryffindors. They admire Dumbledore and think he's the greatest headmaster Hogwarts has ever seen. They keep their little secrets from him which they think are harmless, but that doesn't mean they don't respect Dumbles. It's much easier to believe "the Dark snake" hashad bad intentions than believing that "the epitome of goodness", "the greatest sorcerer of their times" treated a student unfairly to save his own neck.

The parents of other students? Even James - he's the one who brings up the accusation against Severus to comfort Sirius who is really sorry and scared to death that his mother will arrive in the morning to take him home - points out that Dumbledore might have been in trouble to explain it to their parents. Whatever problems Walpurga and Orion had with Sirius he's their eldest son and he's still living at home at the time. They are rich influential Purebloods and I doubt they taken it quietly that their son could be expelled, because Dumbledore kept a 'Halfbreed' in school. How far the tolerance of the Potters would have gone under the circumstances is debatable. They might have been in favour of giving young werewolves a chance, but during full moon said werewolf should have been kept safe and far away from their little darling son.
Anyway those considerations would have been secondary, because

"Dumbledore is good and fair and would never do anything morally questionable"

. It's same the cult dogma by which he later controls the minds of the Order members.

[ladyzenobia.livejournal.com]

I think Dumbledore would have been in trouble explaining it not only to the parents, but to the school governors and the Ministry. I'm not sure if they necessarily knew that Dumbledore had a werewolf in school. There is the werewolf registry, of course, but perhaps the Ministry never thought to compare it to the list of students attending Hogwarts. Because in PoA it sounds very much like Lupin's condition is something that only a few people know about. But, assuming that the governors and the Ministry didn't know Dumbledore would have had to cover the whole thing up or he might have lost his position as Headmaster. Or not? Is there anything in canon about whether the Ministry knew that Lupin was a werewolf?

That co-written fic sounds brilliant btw! Could I have a link? :)

[oryx_leucoryx]

We can be certain Lucius didn't know or he'd be using that against Dumbles. After all he already tried to oust him the previous year and was going after Hagrid via Buckbeak in POA. Now theoretically it is possible that the Ministry and governors in the 1970s knew but left no record for the future so that by the time Lucius became governor he never found out. However given what we see of Albus' way of handling information I am inclined to believe he was the one who held the story.

[sionna-raven.livejournal.com]

Could I have a link?

For the rough version IJ (http://sionna-raven.insanejournal.com/) or a slightly edited version on AO3 (http://archiveofourown.org/works/216898) .
Events directly 'After the Prank' (http://archiveofourown.org/works/213634) .

[nx74defiant.livejournal.com]

"It was my trust in Dumbledore's magic that nearly got you killed."
Added irony the Marauders only got the idea for their night trips after that, because up to that night it didn't occur to them that Lupinwolf could leave.

The Jame's and Sirius' reaction was then - Cool! Lets do it again. Which is the kind of dangerous, thrill seeking behavior often seen in teenage boys.

However as headmaster Dumbledore is responsible for the safety of all the students. I've wondered - after the "prank" did Dumbledore do anything to increase the safeguards around Remus? Did he instal any kind of monitoring? Somehow i doubt it. Under your theory he did nothing to increase security.

Dumbledore is the person who is most responsible for what happened. A werewolf is no more dangerous than any other wizarding child most of the time. With the proper percautions a werewolf should have been safe to have a student. Dumbledore came up with his "brilliant plan". It never entered his mind that his plan would be flawed. And when there was a close call - well no one was really hurt, obviously there was no need to make any changes. Just silence the idiots who interfered.

[oryx_leucoryx]

I've wondered - after the "prank" did Dumbledore do anything to increase the safeguards around Remus?

We know he didn't because in SWM, which happened after the werewolf debacle, James reminds Peter that he runs with a werewolf each month, how could he make a mistake on the relevant OWL question - it was stated in present tense.

[sionna-raven.livejournal.com]

I agree with Oryx. If Dumbledore did anything to increase security, it didn't work. In the fic I have him strengthen the door between the tunnel and the Shrieking Shack. Remus breaks the old one going mad at the smell of human prey. After that night he can't leave without the help of his friends.

I think there must have been something like a door to block the way, because the willow couldn't keep a raging werewolf in. He simply wouldn't care about the injuries by the branches in his desire to hunt.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Yes, something Remus could only open in human form. But of course there were other humans with him - only one of them needed to be in human form, and only for a short while, to open the door, while the others kept Remus at bay for a while.

[nx74defiant.livejournal.com]

One thing seems obvious Dumbledore did not set up any system to monitor Remus and alert him.

[sionna-raven.livejournal.com]

The Jame's and Sirius' reaction was then - Cool! Lets do it again. Which is the kind of dangerous, thrill seeking behavior often seen in teenage boys.

It's more like James could handle a very dangeous situation on his own. The two of them together should have no problems to control the werewolf.
Another mistake I think Sirius - following Padfoot's instincts - makes is that he thinks of Lupinwolf as a normal canine, an animal like himself rather than a Dark creature. Real wolves usually act submissive to large dogs and avoid contact with men. Without other humans around Lupinwolf probably does too.