Concerning the expected effects of reporting prophecies

[sunnyskywalker]

I was re-reading some old DTCL posts, and started wondering about prophecies. Specifically, about what a young, Dark Arts-curious wizard might know--or believe--about how they work.

Divination class, as we see, teachings more indirect predictive methods, such as reading tea leaves and cystal-gazing. Actively channeling... something... to deliver a prophecy isn't taught as far as we know, and likely can't be. Moreover, that particular method seems to be rather obscure. An official Mystery, in fact.

But there are literary depictions of prophecies. And both Shakespeare and Sophocles lived before the Statute of Secrecy, and their works might be find in wizarding libraries regardless of their authors' actual magical abilities or lack thereof. Their depictions of how prophecies usually work may have been based on fact. At least in part.

Would a geeky young wizard combing through every reference he could find to the Dark Arts read Macbeth and Oedipus the King, one wonders? As part of being thorough? And wonder if, perhaps, trying to prevent a prophecy from coming true really will not only be futile, but might even be the very means by which the prophecy will come to pass? Or at least, the attempt could make the prophecy come to pass sooner than it otherwise would have?

Hypothetically, if such a young wizard overheard part of a prophecy while trying to apply for a job, on his terrifying new master's orders--perhaps with some vague hope of using the opportunity to switch sides, but scared off by the opposition's disdain--would he at least have reason to hope that delivering said prophecy to the terrifying master would actually be a way to strike a blow? A desperate hope, for desperate circumstances? (He'd surely noticed by then how, erm, suboptimal the working conditions under Voldemort were.)

When Severus told Voldemort that a prophesied enemy could defeat him, what exactly did he think might happen should Voldemort respond by trying to kill that enemy?

Very possibly, something more than just that enemy getting AK'd.

Very possibly, the same thing Dumbledore thought might happen: Voldemort would be arrogant enough to think he could outwit a prophecy, and would destroy himself in trying to prevent it.

Then Severus and all his friends could put that nightmare behind them, without having to risk their lives and their families (like, say, the expected Baby Malfoy). Whew! Brave, but saving their necks if possible.

How unfortunate that this turned out to mean Sev's childhood best friend would die in the process! But then, he should have known better. Trying to manipulate a prophecy is liable to rebound on one, after all. Yet another reason for him to wish he had died, afterward.

If he'd just kept his mouth shut, might Harry have been born in the wee hours of the morning of August 1?

Comments

[vermouth1991.livejournal.com]

If Lily did indeed go into labor on the 31st and that can't be prevented, I'm now thinking about transporting her over to the other side of the international date line...

[melodyssister]

If you haven't yet, you absolutely MUST read Valley of the Shadow by potionpen, over on AO3. The last chapters are precisely about this!

Playing with the Prophecy Demons....

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

Oh, my word, Sunny.

That makes so much sense.

If you act on a prophecy, whether to avert it or to fulfill it (Macbeth tried both), you empower it.

And what you pay, the cost of doing so, is what you are trying to preserve.

If SEVERUS, the young smartass, had tried to bring about the prophecy BY bringing it to his master--plotting (or at least hoping) that it would goad Him into ill-considered action--in the hopes of saving his own life, and those of his friends, at the probable expense of some random stranger's... then OF COURSE the random stranger he'd just thrown to the Prophecy Demons would turn out to be exactly the one person he'd have sacrificed his own life, and all his other friends', to preserve.

He thought he was being so clever, too. It's not like HE was doing anything directly; it could only rebound on the Dark Lord, and only if he tried to do anything to turn it. And if the Dark Lord turned out to be smart enough to ignore the prophecy, well, no harm done. Including none to Severus, because he was just showing himself keen in bringing it to his master. In fact it was the perfect sweetener to go along with the bitter news that Albus had refused Severus the DADA position--look what useful information I bring you instead. He couldn't lose.

Oh, poor Severus. No wonder his guilt was so overwhelming. And no wonder he was willing, in return, to throw his friends' lives along with his own under the trainwreck that was Albus....

You are brilliant.

As to your last comment--it might even be worse. Some people have speculated that the prophecy was made on Halloween 1979. At the time of Harry's conception. James might have shot a blank that night, or Lily remembered her contraception charms....

[hwyla.livejournal.com]

I do think it over complicates things to have Snape giving Voldy the prophecy because he thinks it will get rid of Voldy. I can see why you suggest it. However, I think it's enough that he reports it to Voldy and so IS involved whether he wants to be or not.

Another possibility would be that he thinks providing Voldy with the info will earn him enough favor that he might be able to ask for protection for Lily - even without the prophecy, she was a target.

I think that even just that simple a reason would cause the prophecy to target her family and so ruin what Sev wanted.

Of course, I also think that it could be as simple as Voldy sent him there specifically to spy on Trelawney's interview. She was a descendent of a known seer. Just because Albus didn't expet anything from her, doesn't mean Voldy wouldn't. But mostly, I think he might have sent Sev simply because Albus was interviewing a 'seer' for a class that Albus had already dropped. It was an oddity - especially since he was interviewing her at a pub in a private room.

Remember also that the HogsHead was where Voldy's 'friends' were waiting to hear from him after his interview for the DADA and is also a hangout for some shady character types. It's easy enough to suppose that Voldy would have heard she was 'in town' and why.

Was Sybill staying at the HogsHead? or was the room rented especially just for the interview. Albus took her directly to Hogwarts, so it is possible that she was staying at the HogsHead.

So the prophecy could already be affecting things and had Voldy send Sev to listen in. Doesn't mean Sev knew Voldy suspected Sybill might 'see' something. All he needed to know was that he was supposed to spy on Albus - possibly even just to find out why he was meeting a woman in a rented pub room. Perhaps he thought Voldy was looking for blackmail material?

I'm not saying I think your theory wrong - however - I'm not sure I think Sev the type to believe in prophecies until this one went off. And while I agree that he MIGHT have read Shakespeare, I'd feel better about this idea if we had some instance in canon that suggested he might have so done.