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deathtocapslockI was re-reading some old DTCL posts, and started wondering about prophecies. Specifically, about what a young, Dark Arts-curious wizard might know--or believe--about how they work.
Divination class, as we see, teachings more indirect predictive methods, such as reading tea leaves and cystal-gazing. Actively channeling... something... to deliver a prophecy isn't taught as far as we know, and likely can't be. Moreover, that particular method seems to be rather obscure. An official Mystery, in fact.
But there are literary depictions of prophecies. And both Shakespeare and Sophocles lived before the Statute of Secrecy, and their works might be find in wizarding libraries regardless of their authors' actual magical abilities or lack thereof. Their depictions of how prophecies usually work may have been based on fact. At least in part.
Would a geeky young wizard combing through every reference he could find to the Dark Arts read Macbeth and Oedipus the King, one wonders? As part of being thorough? And wonder if, perhaps, trying to prevent a prophecy from coming true really will not only be futile, but might even be the very means by which the prophecy will come to pass? Or at least, the attempt could make the prophecy come to pass sooner than it otherwise would have?
Hypothetically, if such a young wizard overheard part of a prophecy while trying to apply for a job, on his terrifying new master's orders--perhaps with some vague hope of using the opportunity to switch sides, but scared off by the opposition's disdain--would he at least have reason to hope that delivering said prophecy to the terrifying master would actually be a way to strike a blow? A desperate hope, for desperate circumstances? (He'd surely noticed by then how, erm, suboptimal the working conditions under Voldemort were.)
When Severus told Voldemort that a prophesied enemy could defeat him, what exactly did he think might happen should Voldemort respond by trying to kill that enemy?
Very possibly, something more than just that enemy getting AK'd.
Very possibly, the same thing Dumbledore thought might happen: Voldemort would be arrogant enough to think he could outwit a prophecy, and would destroy himself in trying to prevent it.
Then Severus and all his friends could put that nightmare behind them, without having to risk their lives and their families (like, say, the expected Baby Malfoy). Whew! Brave, but saving their necks if possible.
How unfortunate that this turned out to mean Sev's childhood best friend would die in the process! But then, he should have known better. Trying to manipulate a prophecy is liable to rebound on one, after all. Yet another reason for him to wish he had died, afterward.
If he'd just kept his mouth shut, might Harry have been born in the wee hours of the morning of August 1?
Divination class, as we see, teachings more indirect predictive methods, such as reading tea leaves and cystal-gazing. Actively channeling... something... to deliver a prophecy isn't taught as far as we know, and likely can't be. Moreover, that particular method seems to be rather obscure. An official Mystery, in fact.
But there are literary depictions of prophecies. And both Shakespeare and Sophocles lived before the Statute of Secrecy, and their works might be find in wizarding libraries regardless of their authors' actual magical abilities or lack thereof. Their depictions of how prophecies usually work may have been based on fact. At least in part.
Would a geeky young wizard combing through every reference he could find to the Dark Arts read Macbeth and Oedipus the King, one wonders? As part of being thorough? And wonder if, perhaps, trying to prevent a prophecy from coming true really will not only be futile, but might even be the very means by which the prophecy will come to pass? Or at least, the attempt could make the prophecy come to pass sooner than it otherwise would have?
Hypothetically, if such a young wizard overheard part of a prophecy while trying to apply for a job, on his terrifying new master's orders--perhaps with some vague hope of using the opportunity to switch sides, but scared off by the opposition's disdain--would he at least have reason to hope that delivering said prophecy to the terrifying master would actually be a way to strike a blow? A desperate hope, for desperate circumstances? (He'd surely noticed by then how, erm, suboptimal the working conditions under Voldemort were.)
When Severus told Voldemort that a prophesied enemy could defeat him, what exactly did he think might happen should Voldemort respond by trying to kill that enemy?
Very possibly, something more than just that enemy getting AK'd.
Very possibly, the same thing Dumbledore thought might happen: Voldemort would be arrogant enough to think he could outwit a prophecy, and would destroy himself in trying to prevent it.
Then Severus and all his friends could put that nightmare behind them, without having to risk their lives and their families (like, say, the expected Baby Malfoy). Whew! Brave, but saving their necks if possible.
How unfortunate that this turned out to mean Sev's childhood best friend would die in the process! But then, he should have known better. Trying to manipulate a prophecy is liable to rebound on one, after all. Yet another reason for him to wish he had died, afterward.
If he'd just kept his mouth shut, might Harry have been born in the wee hours of the morning of August 1?
no subject
Date: 2015-10-22 04:35 pm (UTC)Sybil says she had not eaten that day. It seems as though she was having a hard time making a living. Where was she staying before arriving at Hogsmeade? Did she come to Hogsmeade after having made the appointment with Albus, or was she staying there all along? In either scenario, how did Tom find out about her plans to interview with Albus?
Also, while Sybil was a descendant of a Seer, that was several generations removed. She had no record of successful prophecies up to that point. Why would Tom expect anything?
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Date: 2015-10-22 06:18 pm (UTC)As I said it might not be, however it is also just as unlikely that Sev took it upon himself to go to the HogsHead to spy on Albus. How would Sev have any idea that there would be an interview either?
Either it is the prophecy demons bringing Sev to the right place to overhear, or just plain bad luck, or lastly, something was overheard by someone at the HogsHead about the upcoming interview. It isn't as if canon doesn't suggest the possibility that Aberforth cultivated the DE clientele, specifically for his own info gathering for Albus.
Perhaps Sybill spoke of the interview in the bar?
I do think it strange that she could be moved to Hogwarts so easily and immediately, if she actually had a home elsewhere.
Truthfully, it's probably more that JKR just had to have the interview take place somewhere it could be overheard.
As for why Voldy would expect anything? Simply for the fact that Albus was interviewing her after school had begun and after dropping the subject. It's an oddity. IF word had reached him of the interview then he would want to know why Albus was bothering. Perhaps Voldy suspects that Albus believes she's a seer. IF not then what would Voldy think would be Albus' reason for the interview?
Or, as I mentioned, perhaps he just wanted to know why Albus would meet a woman in a rented room at the HogsHead. And perhaps wonder what he might say to her.
no subject
Date: 2015-10-22 10:26 pm (UTC)It could be that Voldemort really was thinking of sending Severus to apply for a job. Maybe not that particular night, but soon. So Sev was hanging out at the bar with his DE friends, went to the loo, and saw Albus heading up the stairs. "Hmm, that's odd. What's he up to? Maybe I can put in that job application after all--he won't accept me, of course, but I'll be able to tell the Dark Lord I tried. And if I listen a bit first, see what he's up to, maybe I'll bring back something useful..."
I don't think using the prophecy as a weapon necessarily had to be a well-formed plan, just a general hope. "Well, if I probably have to tell him anyway (I mean, no risk trying to hide something that might be nonsense anyway)... what if he reacts classically and it bites him? That would be great! Yes, that confirms my inclination to pass on this fortuitous tidbit." That's probably enough to incur the wrath of the Prophecy Demons.
He needn't have read Shakespeare or Sophocles specifically, either, though being pre-Secrecy authors, it's possible. But I figure wizards have some sort of lore on prophecies, and how you really shouldn't try to mess with them. So he might plausible have read something while researching up on the Dark Arts. And probably filed it under "rare, probably useless, no need to study closely" at the time.
no subject
Date: 2015-10-23 12:03 am (UTC)Name of fic: 'Valley of the Shadow' by potionpen (on Ao3) or nightfallrising (on fanfiction). Again, I suggest reading the earlier stories as there are some shifts from what we 'expect' from canon - altho' I don't think many of them are actually disallowed by canon.
A few of the cardboard characters of Sev's years in Slytherin are considerably more fleshed out. Evan Rosier is actually a main character in this story and Wilkes is female (which really is NOT specified by JKR one way or the other). Warning: M/M relationship unless you read the version on FanFiction with (gen) included in the title - in case that is troublesome.
Also warning - Valley covers the early parts of the war and has a few really 'icky' scenes.
Currently LOVE Flitwick in this!