Deathly Hallows, chapter 5

[anehan]

Fallen Warrior

* Well, that was boring.

...

All right, all right, I'll do it properly.

* Hagrid is alive. Damn. For a moment, I got hopeful there.

* The Order has placed protective charms on the Tonkses' houses. These charms seem to be able to keep Voldemort away, so why aren't all crucial places protected like this? How come the Death Eaters can get to the Ministry, Hogwarts, the Weasleys, you name it? Why did Amelia Bones die in her home if this kind of protective charms existed?

* Harry wallows in guilt. If something happened to anyone else, it would be his fault for endagering them, never mind that the plan wasn't his idea. Am I the only one who thinks JKR put this charming little display of guilt there so that the readers could assure themselves that of course Harry wasn't guilty of anything wrong, no indeed?

* If JKR wanted to convince me of Harry's ability to feel guilt, maybe she should have made him feel guilty when he really was guilty. Like when he, say, cast the Cruciatus Curse.

* Ted calls Andromeda Dromeda. My, what a hideous nickname. It's a bit too close to "dromedar" for my comfort; it makes me think that Andromeda looks like a camel.

* You know, it just occured to me to wonder why the Order permitted Hermione and Ron take part in this rescue mission. Previously, they've been all about protecting them, even to absurd lenghts. What's changed now?

* Harry is sure no one in the Order would have betrayed him. Considering the fate of his parents, his trust is touching. And by "touching" I mean "naïve".

* George's ear can't be restored, because it's been cursed off. Sounds like something JKR came up with just to make her heroes' life more difficult.

* Molly says she can't make George's ear to grow back, which seems to suggest that in ordinary circumstances she'd be able to do it. I always thought something like growing body-parts back would be a Healer's job.

* Aha! So Sectumsempra is Dark Magic. It still doesn't tell us what this ever-so-dangerous Dark Magic is. The distinction between ordinary and Dark magic has always seemed quite stupid to me. Even the most innocuous charm can be used harmfully.

* "Always the tone of surprise," Ron said. If only he could keep this up he'd be a much more interesting character. Unfortunately JKR seems to find it necessary to make him as stupid as she can, probably to make Harry look better. A guy's got to be really dumb to be dumber than Harry.

* Mad-Eye's dead. Why, of why couldn't it have been Hagrid.

* I really hate Fleur's pseudo-French accent. She's been in England for two years now. One would think she had lost most of it by now.

* "'Ear, 'ear." Very funny. Not.

* "The suddenness and completeness of death was with them like a presence." Now this, this is funny.

* Harry's histrionics are rather amusing as well. Yes, Harry, you've got to leave because your presence puts the others in danger. Never mind that they have chosen to fight this far. Not everything is about you, you know.

* Such a drama-queen, Harry is. One more thing he has in common with Voldemort, in addition of both being orphans, Parselmouths and addicted to the Cruciatus Curse, among other things.

* No one has heard of a wand performing magic on its own. They just haven't met Harry's wand. It's pretty much got to be special since Harry is so dumb he can't tie his shoelaces. Someone's got to know what to do.

* After an obligatory Cruciatus scene (one would think Harry would have enjoyed that, but no, Harry only enjoys Cruciatus Curses he himself casts) the chapter ends. Finally.

* See, I told you. It was boring.



Box Picture:
Harry Potter is The Tortured Hero.

Ken and Andrew's Rule of Plotholes:
Why isn't every place protected by the Order's protective charms?

Selling Wood:
Oh Harry, how tortured you are.

Final score: 3 Why, oh why does nothing happen in these chapters? I'm going crazy here.

Comments

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I swear half this book was raising my hopes that Hagrid was dead and then dashing them and laughing.

Note nobody considers warding the Granger home either...

Oh yeah. Harry just takes so much responsibility on his shoulders. It's not your fault Harry! It's not your fault the world revolves around you!

LOL! I thought the same thing about that nickname.

What a shame Moody's dead. A fallen warrior. Now he won't be able to sit at home and protect himself while the three teenagers fight the war for him.

WTF was up with that "nobody would be betray me!" with Lupin darkly hinting of spies? Okay, we know it's really Snape but it still makes things sound more interesting than they are. Well, actually I guess the real spy is actually Dumbledore, sowing dischord even in death. Tell me that's not supposed to somehow foreshadow Dumbledore's "greyness" in this book.

Not only will Ron get stupider but his "always the tone of surprise" will be echoed by Hermione to suggest that Ron doesn't tell her she's pretty often enough. Please.

If Fleur lost her French accent she wouldn't be French anymore!

Voldemort's wand is gay for Potter's wand. Hee! The feeling is mutual!

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

Ah yes. I'll repeat my question from when the DH Sporking lot got to this chapter (and pointed out that tedium repeated six times is still tedium):

Q: How does one disapperate from a broomstick?

Ah yes, poor Moody. Fell through a plot hole. *He* isn't stuck having to wade through the rest of this stupid book.

[anehan]

Twist the broom sharply and concentrate on the three Ds: destination, determination and desperation, or whatever they were.

Or, in other words, I have no idea.

[anehan]

I don't understand why Dumbledore had to orchestrate this travesty of a rescue mission and endanger the lives of fourteen people, including his Boy Wonder, just to strengthen Snape's cover. It's not like Snape hadn't already demonstrated his loyalty to Voldemort by killing Dumbledore. There was no need for additional displays.

I wonder if this means that Dumbledore authorized the killing of Emmeline Vance as well just to strengthen Snape's cover. He really doesn't care about other people's lives if they stand in the way of Greater Good™. How is that different than what Voldemort does? "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster."

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

How does one disapperate from a broomstick?
Oh come on - it can't be any more difficult than spinning around your own axis while holding onto someone else WHO IS ALSO REQUIRED TO SPIN AROUND HIS AXIS, for crying out loud!

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

I don't remember - were we actually told this was the reason behind the whole idiocy of moving Harry in the most risky way possible this side of making him hike to the burrow waving a red flag?

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

Dumbledore's greyness
LOL -. it just occurred to me we have a LotR reversal here: Dumbledore changed from White wizard to Grey Wizard!

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

If JKR wanted to convince me of Harry's ability to feel guilt, maybe she should have made him feel guilty when he really was guilty. Like when he, say, cast the Cruciatus Curse.
Harry's paradoxical perception of guilt remind me of C.S.Lewis' take on a lady who feigned to be not greedy at all (in the Christian sinful sense) by hardly ever eating anything while making such a fuss about WHAT she deigned to eat that she troubled her household much more than if she had simply ordered a seven course meal. Harry's pseudo guilt is always directed where it incontrovertibly is misplaced, drawing all the attention from where it would be appropriate while at the same time racing up the pity points. Not.

[artystone.livejournal.com]

Honestly I think Hedwig and Moody were the lucky ones here.

[anehan]

Dumbledore says it would arouse suspicions if Snape didn't tell Voldemort the correct date of Harry's removal.

[anehan]

That's exactly it. It's nauseating, really.

[tabaquis.livejournal.com]

* No one has heard of a wand performing magic on its own. They just haven't met Harry's wand.

"I need a new wand, mine seems to be gay for Potter's wand."

I'm glad I'm not the only one that had that running through my head!!

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

When reading DH, boredom is always with us - like a presence.

If you knew someone called Andromeda, wouldn’t you call her Annie? Andi? Or even Meda? But a three syllable nick-name? Hell, what am I complaining about, that’s the least of my problems with this chapter.

There was no earthly reason why Ronnikins and Hermione would be allowed on this mission. I know they’re of age, but they’d only become members of The Order on the say-so of the other members, and Mrs Weasley wuld die before letting anyone over 30 grow up - no doubt why they move to Egypt/Romania/abandon the family all together

You’re right, re-growing an ear does seem like a Healers job. So why didn’t JKR write that they suspected that St Mungos had been infiltrated and they didn’t want to use it except in life threatening circumstances, with no other options? Then George could get his ear back at the end of the book, (small substitute for Fred I know). On the other hand, it took me 5 seconds to come up with that once I read your comments, and JKR wasn’t about to give this story that much thought.

I agree that Dark Magic needed better definition. I’ve always thought that a majority of Dark Magic was only dark in the way it was used. 700 years ago, I can imagine Avada Kevadra being used as a means of execution - more humane then the Dementors Kiss? Also, I had little trouble with Harry/Hermione using the Imperius simply to protect themselves/escape from an exceptional (and bad situation.) It’s truly appalling when used to force someone to act against their will/as a puppet with no self determination (Hermione wiping her parents minds - now that was dark)

I’m fine with them being Unforgiveables, but can see how their use could be interpreted differently. The Cruciatus, however, is 100% dark magic. To cause total agony, to torture - no justification at all, under any circumstances. And which one does Harry use when some git spits at his teacher? What about ‘scourgify’? Harry was long dead to me, but how dare JKR ruin McGonagall? Gallant, my arse! Sorry, got distracted there.

Why would the son of two appallingly betrayed characters, betrayed by their best friend no less, have such an undeveloped sense of self-preservation? I hoped the spy was Hermione - unwittingly passing information on to Death Eater Krum. That’d wipe the smug smile off her suddenly lovely face. Run Ron run! But then I also hoped that Percy was spying on the Ministry for Dumbledore. We now know DD was more than cold enough. How else did he find out that Harry’s Trial in Phoenix had been moved forward? Didn't happen sadly - too much camping to write about to have time to include such things.

Harry breezily ignored his culpability over Sirius’ death, but on every other occasion he’s distraught? His total self absorption, self pity and ‘guilt’ as a means of attracting sympathy get right on my tits. If Molly didn’t inexplicably love him like her own, she could have pointed out to the little punk that she had lost both of her brothers to this cause - before he was even born. The Order, inadequate though they were, would have kept on fighting, because some people always do, no matter how bad the odds.

Why oh why was Harry not the Fallen Hero? The horcrux-lite would be destroyed. It’s not as if he did anything else - name me something essential to the ’plot’ that needed Harry. I’m sure Ron could run Voldie through with the sword of Gryffendor as revenge for Ginny’s brutal, graphic and violent death.

But no, we lose Moody - a character I quite liked, and keep the ‘had run his course’ Hagrid and unbearable Harry. Damn. Farewell Moody, your memory will always be with us - like a presence…..

That phrase, along with the flammable owl, will never get old. Unlike the rest of this nonsense.

[beatnikspinster.livejournal.com]

I agree that Dark Magic needed better definition.
I totally agree. It should start by actually defining magic. I don't think any structure has been applied to magic in these books. No consistent laws. No limitations. No relationship to other natural phenomena. It exists as a plot device and branding. "That's Wizards chess." Uh-huh. That's like "They're Designer shoes." Dark magic can be whatever it's needed to be, because there's nothing to measure it against.

Magic, for all it's used to justify genocide and power struggles, is not taken seriously. Which is sad, especially in light of how it's used to make, then bash, "Muggles".

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

No need to protect the Grangers home. Or even put them into hiding with the Dursleys (thus leting them share the same protection/guards) Hermione would much rather wipe their minds (at least as harsh as the Imperius). After all, it was the obvious first option.(Where's that roll-eye smiley?)

Poor Ron. He was entitled to make that comment, but Hermione? Who's she, Angelina Jolie? Ron should have left the tent and gone back to Hogwarts, leaving Harry to drown. As Harry took the only wand into the forest and abandoned Hermione (defenceless and asleep) in the tent, she'd have to walk back to civilisation and would be attacked and kissed by a Dementor.

Ron would inherit all of Harry's wealth and Snape would marry Madame Rosmerta.

The End. I wish.

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

Why did JKR never question what she wrote? I don't mind the occasional slip if it makes for an exciting plot, but she never ever questioned herself. It would be funny if it wasn't so offensive.

She just had to read a point through and ask herself if it makes sense. We all do it and we're not being paid. Silly Cow.

If she'd done it here, she'd have realised it made no sense and changed direction. Why not have Hagrid as the fallen hero? (Please)

[sunnyskywalker]

Hey, you're right! That'll teach him to wash his lights and darks together.

[sunnyskywalker]

I was so disappointed that Percy apparently never used his Ministry position to pass information or something. I mean, I could understand just fine if he didn't want to pass information to Dumbledore, but why couldn't there be a third side, against Voldemort and Umbridge-types but not Order members either? Heck, why not a parallel, informal organization run by Aberforth, or some Department of Mysteries employees, or heck, why not Snape? I guess that would be too complicated...

[go-back-chief.livejournal.com]

Hagrid is alive. Damn. For a moment, I got hopeful there.

LOL yes, exactly what I was thinking when I read that chapter. I can't believe that Hagrid actually was one of my favourite characters in the first three or four books.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

Andromeda could give several acceptable nicknames, including: Andy (or Andie), Andra, Dro, Drama, Dromie (at least better than Dromeda), Meda, Medie, or Meddy.

Frankly, Dromeda is right up there with "Mione" as a stupid nickname. And yes, one immediately imagines Andromeda as looking like a camel. The haughty demenaor and burnette coloring help a lot with that, by the way.

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

Oh, we *couldn't* have Hagrid as the fallen hero. Hagrid's whole point in this book was to provide the image of him, weeping, carrying Harry's supposedly lifeless body out of the forest in chapter 30-something.

At least in some of the earlier books he provided a scrap or two of information, but not here. One seriously wonders why he was even along for this adventure. He was totally useless in it. Almost any of the others could have done a better job of getting Harry away from #4.

Oops, hit "post" too soon!

[go-back-chief.livejournal.com]

Am I the only one who thinks JKR put this charming little display of guilt there so that the readers could assure themselves that of course Harry wasn't guilty of anything wrong, no indeed?

Definitely not. Supposedly this is a display of his remarkable ability (bigger than anyone else's ever) to love and feel compassion, too.

If JKR wanted to convince me of Harry's ability to feel guilt, maybe she should have made him feel guilty when he really was guilty.

But he wouldn't be a proper Mary Sue, then. An MS can only feel guilty when it's obvious to everyone that they're not, so that the reader can rush to comfort and assure them that "of course you're not, you're my BIG HEWO" in their own imaginations.

Previously, they've been all about protecting them, even to absurd lenghts. What's changed now?

Harry needs to be protected. Which, of course, is a need that trumps everyone else's need for protection. Duh.

[sunnyskywalker]

Or Romy. Scads of possible nicknames, and we get Dromeda?

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

* Harry is sure no one in the Order would have betrayed him. Considering the fate of his parents, his trust is touching. And by "touching" I mean "naïve".
What is the point of this? Yes, we know that Snape got information about Harry, so yeah, I guess Lupin's right and Harry's wrong. So... are we supposed to think Harry's stupid?

But then again, Harry proceeds to alienate himself from everyone in the order, including Lupin. So, is he just lying here about trusting everyone? Or does he just revise his thinking later on?

Were we supposed to be suckered into trying to figure out who the mole was--with the payoff being that it was Dumbledore all along? (Heh. With Mundungus as the confunded/imperio'd patsy. So, Dumbledore and Snape were using the very same tactics as the DE's in that little scheme.)

"The suddenness and completeness of death was with them like a presence."

"They all raised their firewhiskey glasses in a tribute to the fallen Moody. Hermione nudged Harry.

"Hsst," she said. "Who is that over by the snacks table? Is that Death?"

Harry glanced surreptitiously at the presence, who was hurried gulping down the cheese and crackers. "I don't think so," he said. "It looks more the Suddenness and Completeness of Death to me."

"Oh," Hermione said, relieved. "That's all right then. I can never tell those two apart."

"Always the tone of surprise," Ron said. If only he could keep this up he'd be a much more interesting character.
It's funny. That line of dialogue keeps playing in my mind. Because it's the sort of bantery-type stuff you'd see in a romantic comedy. Only you'd have the lovers doing it a lot more. JKR does it later on when Ron can't figure out how to get the Weeping Willow open, and Hermione asks him, "Are you a wizard or not?"

What do I want to say here...? I dunno. Just that romantic comedy really isn't JKR's strong suit. This bantery stuff might have worked if it had been part of Hermione and Ron from the beginning, instead of tacked onto the last book.

But... and maybe I'm in the minority here. I just wish she'd gotten Ron and Hermione together in OotP and left it like that. OotP was the last time I liked them as a couple.

[intotheaether.livejournal.com]

"Who is that over by the snacks table? Is that Death?"

If Death from Discworld had been involved in the plot, this book would have been a lot more interesting.