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deathtocapslockWhy did JKR make it be the Defense job that was cursed? Having a cursed class did allow her to regularly introduce new professors, and I can understand wanting to do that, particularly since the action was mostly confined to the school. But why the Defense job?
I can think of some unflattering reasons, such as not wanting to write a hero who can really *do* stuff, or not wanting to have to work out what kind of stuff such a hero would *do*. Or maybe she just wanted to ensure that readers would be interested in the class that happened to be cursed, and Defense would naturally get readers interested, particularly young readers.
Are there any really good reasons?
We never saw Quirrell teach anything, and the book gives the impression that he wasn't teaching well. Lockhart didn't teach the actual subject at all. Lupin focused on Dark creatures, not Dark Arts; he could've been a replacement Care of Magical Creatures professor, instead of Hagrid. He still could've helped tutor Harry to fight dementors. Crouch and Umbridge's classes do work better as Defense classes, but Snape just needed to moved aside for Slughorn to take over Potions.
Frankly, JKR could've made the *History* class be the cursed one. It wouldn't've affected Quirrell, and Lockhart could still have plausibly talked about himself (as an important figure in *recent* history, of course!).
Lupin's only relevant Defense thing was tutoring Harry to fight dementors, which he could have done as a family friend even if it weren't relevant to his subject. It *was* out of class, after all. The boggart scene does contribute to the characterization, but it could've been included by, say, having Lupin premptively substitute for the Defense teacher, who would later substitute for him during the full moon.
Crouch!Moody could have focused the history class on the recent war with Voldemort, and made his class unusually interesting by demonstrating some of the spells used. (Assuming that the actual Defense class couldn't fill in that bit of background info.) He has the right personality for adding a bit of Defense to another class, and Dumbledore would still take advantage of the cursed position to have an Auror around to keep an eye on things.
Umbridge would probably still need to take over Defense, but things could shift at that point. The previous Defense teacher they'd had could have been forced to resign by the Ministry, and Binns could take over History if there was nothing else to do with that job.
And don't tell me that Voldemort wouldn't've been creepy wanting to teach history. Written by a good author, that could be as creepy as anything.
(If Voldemort actually wanted to teach, that is. The books don't make it sound like Voldemort had a very sincere interest in teaching Defense, although I do find that possibility intriguing.)
Not that it has to be History in particular, although that class would have had potential. It's amazing how little JKR did with the Defense class concept, though. It was practically only there to indicate that fighting is a part of the WW, and to excuse Harry from the need to spend time *outside* class training to fight Voldemort.
I can think of some unflattering reasons, such as not wanting to write a hero who can really *do* stuff, or not wanting to have to work out what kind of stuff such a hero would *do*. Or maybe she just wanted to ensure that readers would be interested in the class that happened to be cursed, and Defense would naturally get readers interested, particularly young readers.
Are there any really good reasons?
We never saw Quirrell teach anything, and the book gives the impression that he wasn't teaching well. Lockhart didn't teach the actual subject at all. Lupin focused on Dark creatures, not Dark Arts; he could've been a replacement Care of Magical Creatures professor, instead of Hagrid. He still could've helped tutor Harry to fight dementors. Crouch and Umbridge's classes do work better as Defense classes, but Snape just needed to moved aside for Slughorn to take over Potions.
Frankly, JKR could've made the *History* class be the cursed one. It wouldn't've affected Quirrell, and Lockhart could still have plausibly talked about himself (as an important figure in *recent* history, of course!).
Lupin's only relevant Defense thing was tutoring Harry to fight dementors, which he could have done as a family friend even if it weren't relevant to his subject. It *was* out of class, after all. The boggart scene does contribute to the characterization, but it could've been included by, say, having Lupin premptively substitute for the Defense teacher, who would later substitute for him during the full moon.
Crouch!Moody could have focused the history class on the recent war with Voldemort, and made his class unusually interesting by demonstrating some of the spells used. (Assuming that the actual Defense class couldn't fill in that bit of background info.) He has the right personality for adding a bit of Defense to another class, and Dumbledore would still take advantage of the cursed position to have an Auror around to keep an eye on things.
Umbridge would probably still need to take over Defense, but things could shift at that point. The previous Defense teacher they'd had could have been forced to resign by the Ministry, and Binns could take over History if there was nothing else to do with that job.
And don't tell me that Voldemort wouldn't've been creepy wanting to teach history. Written by a good author, that could be as creepy as anything.
(If Voldemort actually wanted to teach, that is. The books don't make it sound like Voldemort had a very sincere interest in teaching Defense, although I do find that possibility intriguing.)
Not that it has to be History in particular, although that class would have had potential. It's amazing how little JKR did with the Defense class concept, though. It was practically only there to indicate that fighting is a part of the WW, and to excuse Harry from the need to spend time *outside* class training to fight Voldemort.
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Date: 2011-03-05 04:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-05 04:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-05 03:36 pm (UTC)Hagrid never actually says Quirrell was the DADA professor.
"Oh yeah. Poor Bloke. Brilliant mind. He was fine while he was studyin' outta books but then he took a year off ter get some first hand experience...they say he met vampires in the black forest, and there was a nasty bit o' trouble with a hag - never been the same sence. Scared of the students, scared of his own subject-"
Now Hagrid says Quirrell took a year off. I don't quite trust JKR's math or her characters offhand dialogue.
What kinda year are we talking about, 12 months? OR are we actually talking about a school year? As in a Professor doesn't work a full 12 months.
If you're taking a year off your job and someone who works at a school is refering to you as taking a year off. Then odds are a year off might mean from September to June.
We also know that Voldemort talks about meeting Quirrell in the graveyard in GOF: "Then four years ago, the means for my return seemed assured. A wizard - young, foolish, and gullible - wondered across my path in the forest I had made my home. Oh he seemed the very chance I had been dreaming of for he was a teacher at Dumbledore's school"
Again, I don't know if you can take the time/years literally, and even with dialogue you can't trust either.
Harry attends Hogwarts for his first year in Sept. 1991- June 1992. I think the previous school year of Sept 1990 - June 1991 was when Quirrell is refered to as taking a year off. Quirrel could have taught muggle studies from Sept 1989 - June 1990 - He left right at the end of June 1990.
So if we back it up.
Quirrel, Muggle Studies is from Setp 1989 thru June 1990.
Quirrel In June of 1990, left to get experience. So, he would be gone till sometime in 1991. Why does this have to mean a full 12 months?
We know that Quirrel met up with Voldemort during his travels. Who is to say he didn't meet Voldie a couple months in? Say in Sept of 1990.
He could have returned at the end of the new DADA teachers year. He could have returned as early as March, April 1991. What if something happened to the previous DADA and Quirrell shows up and was able to take over for a couple months to finish out the last professors term. Who is to say the curse didn't cause the DADA professor of S1990-J1991 to be hurt and Quirrel returned just in time to fill in a few months.
I don't think we can take the year off literally as 12 months.
We know there is supposed to be this curse. Something would have happened to cause the previous teacher to leave during the Sept. 1990 - June 1991 year.
We know that apparently Dumbledore wanted Quirrel to take a year off to get experience to teach DADA. Another key is, we've got Dumbledore sending someone out to get experience. HELL, if we really wanted to make Dumbledore more manipulative we could say he put Quirrell IN Voldemorts path. Maybe even hinted to Quirrel where to look for dark beings. He heard there was some trouble in Albania with some sort of evil spirit in a forest. Hay Quirrel, why not have a look at that to get some experience.
I can't see Quirrell teaching muggle studies during the Sept. 1990-june 1991. He's gonna go right from muggle studies to DADA? What happen to the year off. He took the year off to get experience for the DADA not muggle studies, the year off to me makes sence before Harry showed up.
So for me, for it to make sence, Quirrel left Hogwarts on his experience in June of 1990 - when he returned could have been anywhere from March to June of 1991.
I don't think the 'year off' means 12 months and we know he met Voldie, which had to have ended his hunt for Dark Arts experience, he just met the supposed master of it.
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Date: 2011-03-05 03:45 pm (UTC)Well, somehow in COS Dumbles has 'sources' reporting to him Tom was in Albania again. Did he have those sources in 1991? Maybe Quirrell's mission was to install Voldiecams all over Europe, in preparation for Harry's enrollment at the school.
As for your scenario, doesn't that mean Quirrell taught DADA for more than one academic year? From Spring of 1991 to June 1992?
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Date: 2011-03-05 05:59 pm (UTC)Harry's first year is Quirrell's first year teaching DADA, unless as I proposed he could have taught a few months in the previous teachers year due to the teacher being gone.
I could easily have had my dates and stuff wrong in the previous post (I was posting without breakfast LOL)
My idea is.
Quirrell is young. Maybe right out of Hogwarts or not long after he takes up the muggle studies position.
Here is what I think:
Sept. 1989 - Quirrell takes up the muggle studies job.
June. 1990 - School year ends. Quirrell Leaves the muggle studies job and goes on his adventure for experience.
Sept. 1990 - New Unknown DADA Professor and Muggle studies professor start working.(Charity Burbage I'm guessing is muggle studies)
June. 1991 - End of school year.
Sept. 1991 - Harry's First Year and Quirrel's as DADA.
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Date: 2011-03-05 06:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-05 04:26 pm (UTC)If the DADA position was really cursed, just WHY would Dumbles encourage a teacher to take a year off to study to get experience for a position he knew they'd only be able to be in for one academic year?
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Date: 2011-03-05 06:03 pm (UTC)Ou, yea, exactly!! Why does Quirrell need to go get experience!!!! Nobody else seem to be sent out to get experience did they?
HE DID send Quirrel to Voldemort!!
DAMN!
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Date: 2011-03-05 08:54 pm (UTC)Quirrell needed to get experience because he was inexperienced in the Dark Arts, plain and simple.
That's not the point...unless Dumbles was looking to get rid of a tenured professor that he didn't like, why tell someone who is already working for him, and is at least competent in that position, to drop it, take a year off (and it doesn't matter whether it's to get experience, do advance study, or write a thesis), and then come back to get another teaching position which ostensibly is cursed so that professors only last one year in it?
Seems rather a cruel joke on Quirrell, even without being possessed by Voldie!Brain...if Quirrell hadn't been possessed, and if he'd done at least an adequate job in the position, what would be the excuse to get rid of him at the end of the year?
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Date: 2011-03-05 10:28 pm (UTC)After JKR said Quirrell was muggle studies professor I started to read Hagrids comment differently, about Quirrell was okay while he was teaching/learning from books. That almost hinted that muggle studies is a sort of uneventful class and he could teach that out of a book. There isn't anything dangerous in muggle studies like there is with the DA class. So it was sort of a breeze for this young guy.
When Quirrell started to ask and maybe talk to DD about applying for the DADA - Dumbledore must have told him, you need more experience to teach that class. Thus, Querrell would have gone off to aquire knowledge for teaching DADA.
I still think Quirrell was gone the previous year before Harry arrived, at least thats how it makes sense to me.
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Date: 2011-03-05 11:53 pm (UTC)If my memory is correct, I thought Quirrell decided to read up on the Dark Arts on his own, and then approached Dumbles who told him to get some practical experience in the field, and then he'd give him the job.
IOW, it was Quirrell who first approached Dumbles, not the other way around.
When Quirrell started to ask and maybe talk to DD about applying for the DADA - Dumbledore must have told him, you need more experience to teach that class. Thus, Querrell would have gone off to aquire knowledge for teaching DADA.
If it was Quirrell's idea, and the position is supposedly known to be cursed, then why would Quirrell have wanted to give up his safe position as Muggle Studies teacher to get a job that he knew would only last one year?
If it was Dumble initiating it, what did he have against Quirrell?
I still think Quirrell was gone the previous year before Harry arrived, at least thats how it makes sense to me.
I think so, too. But it still doesn't answer the question regarding why, how ever long he taught Muggle Studies, he suddenly became a contender for DADA, whether at his own instigation or Dumbles. Neither does it answer the question as to why Dumbles would allow Quirrell to take the position, knowing that the guy would be out of a job (or worse) in a year.
Could it be the Quirrell (and presumably a good number of others who took the job on once it was allegedly cursed) either didn't believe it was cursed, or thought they'd be the ones to break it?
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Date: 2011-03-06 01:08 am (UTC)IOW, it was Quirrell who first approached Dumbles, not the other way around.
I think canon can be read either way. All Hagrid says is that he was OK when he was learning from books, but then went off to get practical experience. It isn't clear whose idea it was. Anyway, the part about the twitching being the result of an unpleasant experience with a hag isn't true, it isn't clear if the rest is.
If it was Dumble initiating it, what did he have against Quirrell?
I think the number of willing candidates was already getting thin on the ground. And the position needed to be filled. It is a required subject after all.
Quirrell is described as young. OTOH he seemed to have been aware of the Severus vs James backstory (or did this come from Voldemort who heard of it from Severus himself?)
I think under normal conditions (no political/war-related constraints) it was customary to wait until a teaching candidate was at least 6 years out of school before employing hir so s/he wouldn't teach people who knew hir as a student. To allow for Quirrell to have at least one year as Muggle Studies (or whatever, if you don't take this nugget as canon) teacher and one year for travel before Harry's first year then he is at least 8 years out of school but probably still younger than Severus, who at this point was 13 years out of school. (One can make him a little bit older if one argues Severus aged faster than normal because of his war-time experiences and his mourning of Lily. So Quirrell may only look younger than Severus when he may be the same age or even slightly older. Some people remain baby-faced into their 30s.)
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Date: 2011-03-05 02:50 pm (UTC)Fred and George and other students above Harry's first year would have known the teacher the year before Harry went to Hogwarts, Fred and George would have had that DADA as one of their professors.
YET, there is ZERO comments from them about any predecessors, even as a joke. "Oh yea, Harry...Professor X was our DADA last year, he got killed by a deranged Hippogriff."
Nothing, nobody looks into it, nobody cares. Mainly because the it's just a throw in story that really becomes a tad unbelievable (even in a fake magical world), when you look at how long the actual curse would have been in effect.
It's just there; and as my first comment, Hermione who friggin finds out who Snape's mum is by hunting down old newspaper clippings doesn't even bat an eye or investigate the curse.
I wonder how Voldemort had the curse set up. You'll never keep a DADA for more than a year unless I die?
I don't see Voldemort, the guy who wants to live forever putting bets on his life like that?
And I always thought curses had a nifty out; unless in the HP world there are unbreakable curses but, thats a whole nother argument I guess.
WTH?
no subject
Date: 2011-03-05 04:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-05 06:02 pm (UTC)Or the curse could have been much less harmful before - they couldn't keep a DADA teacher beyond, say, three years, but they usually left for reasons like suddenly moving to Australia to be with family before. Then one of the reasons Dumbledore knows something's up is that suddenly the curse kicks into high gear and DADA teachers start dropping like flies.
The DADA professor before Quirrell
Date: 2011-03-05 06:12 pm (UTC)JKR:(giggle snort) I know what happen to the previous DADA professor, but it's just too horrible to speak of.
Or, at least that kinda sounds like something she might say.
Horrible could easily be the previous DADA professor was female, she got knocked up and had to leave and thats why nobody is talking about it. Cause sex is evil and you can't tell 11 year olds that the professor was doing the nasty with another professor.
(evil grin)
The rumor is, Snape wanted the job...that was code speak for he got lucky...really lucky.
Re: The DADA professor before Quirrell
Date: 2011-03-05 06:20 pm (UTC)And Dumbledore couldn't have Snape moving on from Lily and maybe deciding he didn't want to work for Dumbledore anymore, so alas, it turns out Hogwarts has no maternity leave policy and they can't possibly get a substitute and hold her job for a year or two. Or open a daycare center for the staff's children (and, say, younger siblings of current students, so their parents can work).
Re: The DADA professor before Quirrell
Date: 2011-03-05 06:27 pm (UTC)I mean, there has to be a female teaching in somewhere along the way in those MANY years before Harry showed up.
Re: The DADA professor before Quirrell
Date: 2011-03-05 06:33 pm (UTC)Re: The DADA professor before Quirrell
Date: 2011-03-05 06:53 pm (UTC)But I meant while the curse was going on.
Re: The DADA professor before Quirrell
Date: 2011-03-05 06:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-05 06:51 pm (UTC)Yes! This would have worked very well. Or perhaps they're usually even able to keep profs for 5-10 years, but then each one ends up leaving under very strange, unfortunate circumstances, like terrible accidents, or something. Dumbledore is never quite sure if it's just a series of unfortunate events or if the position is actually cursed. It would be much less obvious if the profs generally lasted for a few years before something terrible happened.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-05 07:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-05 07:19 pm (UTC)She could just have him say instead that each prof he has hired since has left under terrible circumstances.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-06 12:24 am (UTC)I had a theory about this as well - mine rests on the supposition that close proximity to a soul fragment of the curse's creator increases its effects (poor Quirrell got a double dose, and card-carrying DEs Crouch and Snape both ended up suffering worse fates than the others).