On racism in the Potterverse-

[mary-j-59.livejournal.com]

This quote was in our advent bulletin, and it struck me very strongly.
There are no ordinary people. You have never talked to a mere mortal. Nations, cultures, arts, civilizations – these are mortal, and their life is to ours as the life of a gnat.

That, of course, is C.S. Lewis. I believe the quote is taken from Mere Christianity. Once upon a time, when the Potter books were becoming enormously popular, Rowling gave an interview - I think in Time magazine. In this interview, she took some pains to distinguish herself from C.S. Lewis. One thing I remember her saying is that her books were different from his because, in hers, the children would be allowed to grow up. One can ask whether, in the end, the trio did grow up. I rather think not. But that's not the major difference I see in the two authors' works.

If you read the Narnia books attentively, you can see that Lewis really believed the extraordinary statement he made above. Yes, from a modern pov, one can read him as racist and sexist. But NO ONE in the Narnia books is condemned because of their birth, social status, or genetic heritage. Everyone has free will and everyone, in the end, can choose to come to Aslan's country. It's up to them whether they will so choose or not.

In the Potter books, there is a sort of Venn diagram of specialness. The vast majority of people are Muggles. They cannot even see Hogwarts, and the special people treat them, at best, with condescension. Inside this large circle is a tiny one, of all the Witches and Wizards. They are the real human beings, the people who matter. Inside this tiny circle, again, is another circle, consisting of perhaps 1/4 of the magical people. These are the Gryffindors, and they are the elect.*

Nobody can choose to be magical, as Calormenes like Emeth and Aravis, Dwarves like Poggin and Trumpkin, beasts like Reepicheep and Puzzle, and ordinary humans like the Pevensie parents can choose to love Aslan. If Muggles could choose magic, Petunia would surely have accompanied Lily to Hogwarts. She didn't. You are either born a Wizard, or you're nothing.

Nor, some fans to the contrary, do you get to choose whether you're a Gryffindor. We've all beaten this dead horse repeatedly, I know, but it's worth repeating. Dumbledore does not tell Harry that our choices make us what we are. He says our choices show what we are. If we choose to be in Gryffindor, that is because we are predestined to be among the elect. If we choose to be in Slytherin, then there is probably no help for us - at least, not as far as I can see.

Against this background of extreme privilege, Rowling attempts to tell a story in which racism is the primary evil. The fact that every Witch and Wizard we see is racist against Muggles simply doesn't matter - because Muggles don't matter. And there is no analysis, in the books, of how anti-Muggle racism leads naturally to anti-Muggleborn racism. It's perfectly okay to mock and torment the Dursleys. But it's not okay to mock and torment Hermione, who is a Witch. It's especially not okay to mock Harry, the hero.

Contrast this, again, with Lewis. He says, ...it is immortals whom we joke with, work with, marry, snub, and exploit–immortal horrors or everlasting splendours...Next to the Blessed Sacrament itself, your neighbor is the holiest object presented to your senses.

Quite a contrast, isn't it? Whatever you think of Lewis, ask yourself this: what sort of boy would Harry have become if he had realized, even for one moment, that Uncle Vernon and Aunt Petunia were immortals?

Just a thought.

Comments

Re: Damning Snape?

[mary-j-59.livejournal.com]

Yes, it's the symbolism, but not that alone.

As far as the symbolism goes, he is killed* by a serpent, and the serpent is often equated with the devil.

We never see him redeemed in the afterlife, though Rowling had plenty of opportunities to show him as such. Instead, she chose to focus on Dumbledore.

He gets no portrait - according to Rowling, because he abandoned the school and thus was not worthy of one.

She just couldn't bother to actually show that the man had been redeemed. And that really, really bugs me.

*Of course, he's not really dead. To have the hellish, loveless life Snape apparently had, and then to give everything for a boy who hates him, and then to die that way - it's just too much. So I prefer to believe that he vanished and got no portrait because he's not dead!

Re: Damning Snape?

[malic-ba.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

I know the Shack isn't actually underground, but having it reached by a tunnel in the book POV seemed symbolic of this to me too.

We don't see much of the afterlife though. I'm not sure if they really have a 'hell' (except for Voldemort who gets left under a seat in King's Cross for eternity?).

(When I first heard the 'no portrait' comment I could not believe it and had to reread the end to make sure. JKR's vindictiveness to this character - and to so many fans, not just Snape's, in the later books - appalls me.)

Alive or dead he must at least be free now.

Re: Damning Snape?

[oryx_leucoryx]

Well, for the whole split/torn soul to mean anything there must be some consequence in the afterlife for damaging one's soul. Which is, of course, exactly what Dumbles demanded that Severus do.

Re: Damning Snape?

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

Yea, exactly. It all depends on if AK'ing someone who is gonna die anyway and who wants to be killed is murder. So I have no clue if Severus gets a soul split from that. If you take the mechanics of the spell then yes - it would spit a soul every time right? If it works like a machine, gear moves here, magic goes there. But it's hard to say with the wonky spells, Severus seemed to assume that killing Albus would lead to damange to his own soul. Dumbledore argues that Severus would have to decide if it did. So do we believe Dumbledore? Or was he just manipulating Severus?

Hell, what about Bellatrix and Molly; Molly did a killing curse on bellatrix, is her soul split to? There was no deal between them about killing each other, it was on with them, one or the other. Or at least I assume it was the AK since JKR didn't give us the actual words just that Harry witnessed it and seem to know what was coming next. Gonna assume it was an AK.

Re: Damning Snape?

[sunnyskywalker]

You also have to factor in remorse. Snape had time to heal his soul over the last year of his life - but does the remorse have to be of the "I wish I'd never done that because it was wrong" kind, or would "I'm really sorry I had to kill him as he asked and wish there had been a better way" or "I'm sorry I semi-unintentionally started this whole mess in the first place" suffice?

Molly probably isn't sorry (understandable given the circumstances), but then, maybe killing in battle to defend yourself or your kids doesn't count as a soul-splitting murder either.

Re: Damning Snape?

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

Wait... Snape never got a portrait? OK, that's just kicking someone while they are down. :-(

Re: Damning Snape?

[nx74defiant.livejournal.com]

JK stated that Snape didn't get a portrait because he "abandoned" Hogwarts by leaving. (But DD leaving Hogwarts to the mercy of Umbridge wasn't abandonment I guess, silly me).

In another interview she stated that Harry got Snapes portrait put up in Hogwarts.

Re: Damning Snape?

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

Nope, at least not IN the book. Now in an interview, apparently Harry was so noble he saw to it that Snape would get one; but as far as us getting that in the actual book, nada. So, apparently Snape could not get one on his own - Harry had to be all gryffindor and use his super special chosen one powers on the rest of the magical world.

It's not like Snape the Headmaster had anything to do with it or that the castle's magic knew what he was doing OR the other headmaster portraits were apparently unable to vouch for him, nope. And apparently not even his memories were good enough; Harry left those in the Headmasters office...BUT NOPE...none of that mattered. The rest of the adult magical world apparently had to wait for Harry to say it was okay.

Apparently self assisted killing of oneself while Headmaster isn't abandoning the school though, thats all brave and shit, What Snape did is apparently not brave.

Re: Damning Snape?

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

Well, the world does revolve around Harry, so it makes sense that he is the only one able to do anything about it, right?

Personally, I think it would be fitting to have Harry install the portrait, only to have it start calling him out for the lack of respect Harry showed the real Snape.

"Oh, a portrait. What a lovely token of your esteem, considering that I died horribly to help out you and your miserable little friends. You never showed the real Snape any kindness, but I guess now that he's dead and out of your way you can pretend that you did. Who would question the great Harry Potter, after all?"

Re: Damning Snape?

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

To have the hellish, loveless life Snape apparently had, and then to give everything for a boy who hates him, and then to die that way - it's just too much. So I prefer to believe that he vanished and got no portrait because he's not dead!

Well, when you put it that way... that poor man. If JKR really intended such a fate for him, then shame on her!

Re: Damning Snape?

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

Of course, he's not really dead. To have the hellish, loveless life Snape apparently had, and then to give everything for a boy who hates him, and then to die that way - it's just too much. So I prefer to believe that he vanished and got no portrait because he's not dead!

I thinks that's why so many women are fans of his. It's not sexual; it's empathetic. Women as a group know better than men what it's like to live your whole life for someone else, working in the shadows for the well-being of others, getting blamed when things go wrong, but getting no credit when things go right.

Of all the HP characters, Snape is the only one who gets no satisfaction in life whatsoever. Harry has a lousy childhood and crazy adolescence, but a good adulthood. Neville has a lousy childhood and adolescence, but a good adulthood. James and Lily died young, but their lives were great up until then. Dumbledore, of course, lived to be ancient and had a great life all the time. Only Severus has a neglectful, possibly abusive childhood, tortured adolescence, and adulthood of slavery whipsawing between two psychopaths--then dies a lonely, painful, degrading death on a dirty floor in an abandoned building before he's 40. Hellish (and damned) is right. His life reminds me of a jacket I saw in high school. It had a map of Vietnam on the back, and it said, "When I die I'm going straight to heaven because I've spent my time in hell."

Of all the ugly things Rowling has said and written, giving Snape this horrendous life, then trashing him repeatedly in interviews on top of that is the ugliest. She reminds me of Bart and Lisa on The Simpsons, laughing uproariously as Scratchy the cat gets mutilated and murdered in various horrible ways. But that's a satire. JKR is serious. I don't know which is more appalling about Rowling: that she's serious, or that she doesn't realize how awful she sounds.

Re: Damning Snape?

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

I always think about the comment about how - he's so horrible to Harry and other students and JKR thinks he's so shabby or something like that, for being horrible to teenagers. Really? That's gets you hate mail from your creator? Because you don't have patience to deal with teenagers dramatica?

Seriously? Apparently spending time with teenagers who can kill you is supposed to make you like them? And Hogwart does appear to have a general amount of murdering crazy people coming out of it's halls. Imagine being on edge for a majority of your life (He was a student then a teacher) I couldn't tolerate teenagers when I was a teenager. What must it be like spending all your time at a school full of 11-18 year olds who could potentially kill you by waving a wand?

If he was an asshole at 20, imagine what 10 or so years of that did till the golden boy Harry Potter arrived.

And plus, the dude was trapped. From the moment Lily died, Dumbledore gives Severus this story about Voldemort is gonna be back and Harry will be in danger. I'm still trying to figure out how DD knew then, Dumbledore must have known then the connection was more than just happenstance. So, Severus is stuck in his 20 because he decides to trust Dumbledore.

So I don't get JKR still even after the books are over still continuing to speak badly of Snape. Because he was mean to teenagers? I don't know about anyone else but I know quite a few teenagers who need they're asses handed to them.

Re: Damning Snape?

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

So I don't get JKR still even after the books are over still continuing to speak badly of Snape.

I know that when I myself write a story, I as the author have a clear picture in my mind of who the hero/heroine/good guys are.

But I've been surprised on more than one occasion when a reader has actually "bonded" more with a secondary character, or one who may not even be a good guy/gal...

And for me, that's fine. I'm actually emotionally attached to ALL of my characters, both the "good" and the "bad" ones, and I have never sought to dictate to my readers which character they should like.

Rowling, OTOH, seems to be a very controlling woman who has only one vision of her saga in her mind, and she constantly seeks to force readers to only abide by HER vision, not the reader's own vision/interpretation...

So Rowling doesn't like Snape; she can't understand why many readers do like him, and seeks to force us to change our minds and except only HER world view...

Re: Damning Snape?

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

If anyone writes a story, there are going to be various characters in it, good, bad, indifferent.

I like stories where the author doesn't force you to pick a side or at least makes it so you can understand why someone would do XYZ. Just throwing in a torture curse to try and prove Harry isn't perfect is just as lame as suggesting that Snape is somehow evil because he was mean to teenagers.

I think I remember seeing a couple of interviews with Alan Rickman over the years. Various movies he's been in so I can't say exactly which movie I'm remembering now. But when someone asked him about being the bad character or playing the bad part he seems to hedge on those kind of questions. His statement usually runs along the line as he doesn't see the character that way.

Re: Damning Snape?

[malic-ba.livejournal.com]

All so very true.

I prefer to try to understand the internal reality of a story and not what might have been going on in the author's head. It even bugs me a little when others speculate about the author's private life. Usually.

But with JKR and all those interviews, and especially with Snape, it's like, WTF?? She actually comes out and says he's based on a real person, one of her teachers at school who was mean. His name is actually in the public domain now! Then she writes this character an utterly hellish life and miserable death, points out how ugly he is in nearly every scene, runs him down in interviews too, and gets all upset when fans like the character. (And yet, somehow, has him acting more morally than anyone else in the books.)

What's going on with that? Is she really just that vindictive, or is it something else?

Not that I really want to know the backstory. It just seems such an extreme reaction.

Poor Snape, his universe really is aligned against him.

Re: Damning Snape?

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

What I find the most amusing about the whole thing is the person she says he was based on doesn't seem like all that bad a guy from what I read about him.

The dude even had a wife to my understanding because in one interview I believe the man said his wife was the one that said, of course the character is based on you but she didn't want to tell him (or something like that). Which from that interview alone I thought that was completely cute and sweet; this old married couple and the wife knowing the husband so well that she knew he was better off not knowing. Kind of like she was protecting him. I thought that was kind of awesome.

To me JKR shouldn't have given over to the indulgence of/from the media and put that man in the spotlight. If he was anything like Snape I imagine he didn't appreciate being called out that like and exposed.

Re: Damning Snape?

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

To me JKR shouldn't have given over to the indulgence of/from the media and put that man in the spotlight. If he was anything like Snape I imagine he didn't appreciate being called out that like and exposed.

I can't imagine that *anyone,* other than a total glory hound/narcissist, would have appreciated it. Really, if anything screams immaturity it's JKR's 1) need to take such petty revenge on her grade-school teacher for having been less than adoring of her, and 2) publicly and proudly *announcing this fact* to the entire world, without regard for the feelings of the man himself. I frankly admire the late Mr. Nettleship for his handling of the matter.

Re: Damning Snape?

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

To me JKR shouldn't have given over to the indulgence of/from the media and put that man in the spotlight. If he was anything like Snape I imagine he didn't appreciate being called out that like and exposed.

IAWT. This also provides an outstanding example of what phonies and hypocrites the JKR sycophants are. Nettleship died several months ago, and the Snape fan sites mentioned it and posted a couple of photos of him from when he was younger and more Snapish-looking. One of the Rowling Butt-Bussers came onto Snapedom and ranted something like, "You Snape fans are so horrible. This man was a private citizen, yet you post pictures of him in a public forum and talk about him as if he were a public figure. You have no shame, just because he reminds you of your precious Snape." A member of Snapedom replied, "Uh, it was Rowling herself who made this man a public figure, not us. Why aren't you mad at her?" The troll said, "That's totally irrelevant, one thing has nothing to do with the other, you Snape fans are still horrible."

Out of curiosity, I looked at some JKR sycophant sites, and they were all saying much the same thing. It's okay if JKR does it, but not Snape fans. No wonder they like her, her favorite characters, and warped morality so much. They're just like her.

Re: Damning Snape?

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm sure he wasn't. If she acted anything like Harry Potter as a child, he probably was pretty justified in calling her out for it. (totally speculation on my part, though)

Re: Damning Snape?

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

Wow... so, a grown woman still hasn't gotten over her childhood grudges to the point that she essentially writes a hate-fic about a teacher she had issues with? I swear, every interview I hear from her makes me think less of her as both an adult and a human being. So much for once being one of my idols.

Re: Damning Snape?

[oryx_leucoryx]

She doesn't even try overcoming a grudge to a teacher who - what? Wanted her to do her work and not dream away in class? (A person who also hired Rowling's mother when she was sick and had a hard time finding a job, apparently.) But she has Remus criticize Severus for bearing a grudge to those who bullied him for years, nearly killed him and assaulted him sexually in public later? Sense of proportion, Rowling!

Re: Damning Snape?

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I find it a bit...odd myself. Not only the juvenile need to punish this guy and tell the world about it, but also the apparent inability/unwillingness to consider, with the perspective of maturity, the possibility that maybe he was actually right now and then or trying to teach her something. (Or if not, to simply say, "He was a crap teacher, but it's kind of irrelevant now' and let it go!) If she were genuinely traumatized, that'd be one thing, but I haven't seen signs that she feels that's the case. *puzzlement*

Autobiography time: I had a teacher in middle school who I now think of, quite fondly, as 'my Snape.' He wasn't quite so sarcastic, perhaps, (and I don't think he was secretly saving the world, but you never know ;) ) but at the time I thought him just as mean and unfair to me as Harry sees Snape. He would tease me for being a goody-two-shoes stickler for rules ("Now don't get in any trouble, condwiramurs!") and in his class - woodworking - he would do things like examine my work under a very bright light, find tiny flaws that needed to be fixed, and circle them in dark pencil so that I *had* to refinish the area. I was furious with him. Because clearly he could have no better reason for any of it than delight in tormenting me.

Except...looking back, he was quite right about the fact that I needed to loosen up, to put it mildly, and realize that not everything was an attack. Whether or not he chose the 'best' strategy there, I really don't know how to judge, but I can find no malice in it. It makes me want to laugh. And the refusal to let me turn in a half-assed job in class was just that: an attempt to get me to do my best and really buckle down even though I didn't *like* the work particularly. He was trying to do two things, at least: show me that I *could* do better, and teach me determination. Willpower. How to just get the bloody job done. Both lessons somehow got through, though I gave him no credit for a long time, and I attribute a great part of what got me to the place I'm at now (earning my doctorate) to that care on his part. For it was a form of caring. I was just blind to it then. But I see it now; I've been meaning to write and thank him. And I don't consider myself the most stunning example of maturity. So the fact that JKR apparently can't or won't even consider any interpretation other than "He hated me and was MEAN!!eleventy!" puzzles me. To put it kindly. Sigh.

tl;dr: Um, JKR? Maybe grow up a little? It's not that bad, really.

Re: Damning Snape?

[mary-j-59.livejournal.com]

thinks that's why so many women are fans of his. It's not sexual; it's empathetic. Women as a group know better than men what it's like to live your whole life for someone else, working in the shadows for the well-being of others, getting blamed when things go wrong, but getting no credit when things go right.

Of all the HP characters, Snape is the only one who gets no satisfaction in life whatsoever.

You are so right, on both these points. Way back in the "Is Snape Sexy" thread on Snapedom, I explained that I loved Snape because I identified with him, not because I found him sexy. And - just as some people can't get over "he deserved it" (of Mr. Nettleship), I can't get over Rowling's having said that Snape was more culpable than Voldemort, because, unlike Voldemort, he had been loved. Who ever loved him? Snape has a remarkable capacity to love others, but he never gets any love in return - not that I can see.

Oh, well. I guess we all read these books differently, but it's nice that there are people here who share my bafflement!

Re: Damning Snape?

[malic-ba.livejournal.com]

Dear God! I never meant to suggest that Mr Nettleship deserved any of this!

I am just trying not to reflexively condemn JKR for what really looks like petty, childish revenge on a *real person*

It would be so easy to do, because there are so many things in what she's written and said that appal me (and hanging around here, where smart and analytical people keep pointing out the implications of things that I just went 'ick' and skated over when I read them, doesn't reduce that at all :) )

I absolutely apologise for casting aspersions on someone I have never heard a single word against.

Re: Damning Snape?

[mary-j-59.livejournal.com]

You didn't imply any such thing! It was Rowling herself who said "He deserved it" of Mr. Nettleship.