[identity profile] sweettalkeress.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] deathtocapslock
Harry: So…does this mean Sirius is dead? He’s really gone for good?

Lupin: Yes, it does.

Harry: AAAAAAAAH! NOOOOOOOOOOO! WHAT WILL I DO WITHOUT HIM?! HOW WILL I GO ON?! MY LIFE IS COMPLETELY EMPTY AND RUINED WITHOUT HIM!

Lupin: That’s just the grief talking. Or rather, capslocking.

Harry: HOW DO YOU KNOW?!

Lupin: Because you’re the main character and therefore you’ll pull through.

Neville: Say, Harry, just who was that man?

Harry: It’s none of your business, Navel!

Neville: [Buries face in hands] You’re hopeless.

Lupin: Now that you’re here, where are the others?

Neville: Well Hermione’s unconscious somehow, and Ron’s slowly being throttled by an evil brain, but other than that, I think they’re alright!

[Just then, Bellatrix comes in, dueling Kingsley!]

Harry: IT’S HER! SHE KILLED SIRIUS! NOW SHE MUST PAY! [Looses himself from Lupin’s grip]

Lupin: This is not going to end well.

[Harry chases Bellatrix into the room with the brains]

Bellatrix: You honestly think you can challenge me? That’s a laugh.

[She casts a spell that smashes the case with the brains, and they begin to swarm around Harry]

Harry: Ooh! Will they make me smarter?

[They start attempting to grab him]

Harry: …Never mind....

[He picks himself up and runs after Bellatrix again, this time catching an elevator that takes him up to the main floor]

Harry: Well at least I’m rid of all that weird and creepy stuff down below! Hopefully this fight will be a bit more normal from now on!

[He finds Bellatrix waiting for him]

Bellatrix: Surprise!

Harry: Aha! I’ve got you now!

Bellatrix: Oh, really?

[She aims another spell at Harry, forcing him to duck behind the statue in the fountain]

Bellatrix: You honestly think you can hide from me behind that thing?

Harry: No. But I know I can make you suffer! Crucio!

Bellatrix: Ha! That power does not work on me because I can tell you don’t really mean it! You have to mean to cause pain, see!

Harry: Oh, really! I’ll keep that in mind for next time.

Bellatrix: Wait…you’re still considering using this most evil of curses that can drive its victims insane?

Harry: Maybe. Maybe not.

Bellatrix: …Never mind. Here, I’ll show you how it’s done! Crucio!

[Harry is just able to duck behind the statue, causing Bellatrix to blow the centaur’s arm off instead]

Bellatrix: Huh. I didn’t know it could do that. No matter! I’m still much stronger than you are! I could kill you any time I want!

Harry: Oh, no you couldn’t! You’ve underestimated me! Stupefy!

Bellatrix: Protego!

[This time, the goblin loses an ear]

Harry: What? How can these spells that have nothing to do with blowing up inanimate objects blow up inanimate objects in this way?!

Bellatrix: I’m as confused by it as you are. Oh, well! Give me the prophecy and I might even spare your life. Maybe!

Harry: Oh, that prophecy? It’s been destroyed.

Bellatrix: What?

Harry: It smashed in the last chapter.

Bellatrix: No! How could it?!

Harry: It did!

Bellatrix: HOW DARE YOU!? I WAS GIVEN EXPLICIT ORDERS TO GET IT FOR MY MASTER!

Harry: Ow! You capslocking is giving me a headache! Oh, wait, that’s my scar.

Voldemort: Lord Voldemort has arrived! Bwahahahaha!

Harry and Bellatrix: WHAT?!

Bellatrix: Master, I’m so sorry the prophecy was smashed!

Voldemort: Whatever. Now that you have brought Harry Potter to me, it will be simple for me to finish him off! Avada Kedavra!

[But before the attack can hit Harry, one of the statues jumps in front of him, and the spell cannot penetrate it]

Harry: Hooray! Now the inanimate objects in the setting are coming to my rescue because I’m just that awesome!

Voldemort: I can’t believe I’m being foiled by a broken-down statue! Me!

Dumbledore: Hello Tom Rid!

Voldemort: Oh, it’s you. That explains it. And my name is not Tom Rid!

Dumbledore: Well it used to be. Doesn’t that mean anything to you?

Voldemort: That’s Tom Riddle to you, and anyway I no longer go by that name! Or have you honestly forgotten that?

Dumbledore: Whatever, Tommy. Run along home if you want to avoid getting arrested by the aurors.

Voldemort: Run away?! From you?! I don’t think so! Avada Kedavra!

[Dumbledore is able to evade the curse, which instead sets a desk behind him on fire]

Voldemort: WHAT?! How in the hell could this super-powerful killing curse miss its target?!

Dumbledore: Don’t take it personally, Tiny Tom, I’m just so awesome I bend the rules of the universe around my amazing specialness.

Voldemort: Aaaargh you are so infuriating!

Dumbledore: I know. It’s my best quality. [He aims a spell at Voldemort, but Voldemort easily deflects it]

Voldemort: That was pathetic! Why won’t you attempt to use the killing curse on me? Are you too noble?

Dumbledore: It’s not that I’m too noble, it’s just that there are other ways of destroying you that are even better!

Voldemort: Oh, yeah? Like what?

Dumbledore: I’m not going to tell you that—if I did it would spoil the fun!

Voldemort: Well…two can play at that game, you know! I’ve invented so many horrible ways of killing people--!

Dumbledore: Whoever said anything about killing?

Voldemort: Ah…didn’t you say you were going to destroy me?

Dumbledore: Well yes, but not kill you.

Voldemort: What could be worse than killing me, though?

Dumbledore: There are worse things than death.

Voldemort: Oh, yeah? Like what?! …Wait a minute, why are we having a philosophical discussion when we’re supposed to be fighting?! Take this! Avada Kedavra!

[This time his attack’s blocked by the centaur statue]

Voldemort: These damn statues!

[Dumbledore creates a fiery rope with his wand, which Voldemort transforms into a snake]

Voldemort: While you’re distracted…Avada Kedavra!

Fawkes: To the rescue! [Eats Voldemort’s spell]

Voldemort: That damn bird! Dumbledore, it’s not a fair fight unless you face me one on one, brawn against brawn!

Dumbledore: It’s not my fault you’ve got no friends to hide behind!

[He encases Voldemort in the fountain’s water, but unfortunately Harry’s scar is getting worse, and he feels like he’s bound to a snake]

Harry: Oh, to shed my skin like this snake and swim in the dark void beyond….

[But just then…]

Harry: Is…is it over? Am I back to reality?

Dumbledore: Yes, everything’s alright now.

Harry: Hooray! My angel has saved me again!

Dumbledore: Yes, I did. And don’t you forget it.

[Many other witches and wizards enter, including Cornelius Fudge]

Fudge: Dumbledore, Dumbledore, is it true that You-Know-Who was here?

Dumbledore: Yes, yes it is. You’ll also find several of his followers being detained downstairs.

Fudge: I see. Well, that matters little. You, sir, are a fugitive, and thus I will have to take you in.

Dumbledore: As if your men could defeat me. Honestly, haven’t I proven that I’m too awesome to detain?

Fudge: Fair point. But…what exactly happened here? And what the hell is Harry Potter doing here at a time like this?!

Dumbledore: I will explain it all later. In the meantime, Harry, have an unauthorized portkey that you can use you return to school!

Harry: Wow, you’re the best, Dumbledore!

Fudge: But that’s illegal!

Dumbledore: Yeah, whatever. By the way, get that evil woman Umbridge out of my school.

Fudge: Of course…anything!

Harry: Wow, Dumbledore! You really are my savior!

Dumbledore: Why are you still here? Get back to school already!

Harry: …Alright, then.

[Harry teleports back to Hogwarts]

Date: 2015-03-18 03:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hwyla.livejournal.com
The main thing that really bugs me in this chapter is that looking back from bk7 we now know Albus wasn't actually a 'better' dueler than Voldy, he just had the better wand.

I find it frustrating that the most exciting part of this whole adventure 'the Albus/Voldy duel' is so dependent on the Elder Wand. If Albus didn't have that wand, would Voldy have won? Was Voldy actually the better wizard (power/magic-wize)?

And what would have happened if Voldy had won? Looking at this from the end of the series, I have to question whether JKR had already decided on the Hallows at this point. On the one hand, I think she had it planned from bk1 with Harry's swallowing the snitch, on the other we have this scene where uberAlbus should have wiped the floor with Voldy.

I would like to point out - especially since I have recently discussed this elsewhere - many people think Harry's crucio did not work on Bella at all. And it somewhat sounds like that's what you were implying. But IF I recall correctly, Bella does end up on the floor 'panting' when she tells Harry that 'righteous anger' isn't enough. So I think the crucio did work - it just wasn't very strong compared to what Bella can produce (and apparently withstand - it isn't as if she screamed)

BTW - love the line about 'hiding behind your friends' and unfair not fighting one-on-one. Shades of Marauders there.
Edited Date: 2015-03-18 03:29 am (UTC)

Date: 2015-03-18 03:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vermouth1991.livejournal.com
I'd really like to know what all y'all's idea on "there are other ways of destroying a man" are.

Re: Harry's first Crucio
Bellatrix screamed: the spell had knocked her off her feet, but she did not writhe and shriek with pain as Naval Neville had— she was already back on her feet, panting...

My inappropriate awe for Voldemort really grew after I first realized that he was dueling someone who had the Elder Wand. (A better question would be, how the heck did Dumbledore win the duel with Grindelwald?) Can you imagine a guy using an ordinary sword to duel someone that has a light saber?

Date: 2015-03-18 04:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jana-ch.livejournal.com
I don't think Albus did "win" a duel with Grindelwald, in the sense of defeating him in combat. I think he went to Gellert as a friend, and Gellert either surrendered to him because his armies were already defeated but he refused to surrender to anyone (Jodel's theory, I think); or Albus zapped him in the back after greeting him as an old comrade.

Date: 2015-03-18 01:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hwyla.livejournal.com
I agree - or last possibility - however, less likely - Gellert still 'loved' Albus and couldn't stand to hurt him. I suppose he also might have thought Albus still agreed with his ideas and so wasn't there to duel him? It would be interesting if Albus merely snatched the wand from him. - an echo of Harry/Draco, ust with the actual elder wand.

Date: 2015-03-19 12:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jana-ch.livejournal.com
I think I'll make that my headcanon from now on: Albus came to Gellert as a friend, got him off-guard by approaching him with out-stratched arms as if for an embrace, then snatched the Elder Wand out of his hand, thereby becoming its master. Gellert's forces were already effectively defeated and he was tired of the whole business, so he surrendered quietly. Albus later made sure his quarters in Nurmengard were quite pleasant and full of books and whatnot.

Voldemorts fear of Dumbledore

Date: 2015-03-25 11:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nx74defiant.livejournal.com
I don't think Voldemort feared Dumbledore because DD was a powerful wizard.

What Voldemort feared was pushing Dumbledore to far so DD would break his silence and start talking.

DD knew to much. That was how Albus was a threat.

Re: Voldemorts fear of Dumbledore

Date: 2015-03-27 01:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vermouth1991.livejournal.com
Hmm, I think you're on to something big here. You'd think a Dark Lord who'd renounced his soul and humanity wouldn't care about his ~reputation~, but actually there's a lot for him to lose, like people knowing of his mixed blood, his lowly upbringing...

Date: 2015-03-19 03:11 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] oryx_leucoryx
As far as we can tell, the duel with Tom was their first face-to-face encounter since Albus refused Tom the DADA position (and Tom cursed the job). Also, it was the first time (to our knowledge) that Albus used the wand in a duel. A year previously he used it to stun Barty Jr through a closed door, and this was, to our knowledge, his first use of that wand to attack a person. In King's Cross Albus claimed he was 'taming' the Elder Wand. I wonder if these two instances reawakened the wand's nature in a way that contributed to Albus' mishandling of the cursed ring (with the Resurrection Stone) some 2-3 weeks after the duel.

Date: 2015-03-20 02:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hwyla.livejournal.com
But wouldn't that mean that he never used it against anyone ever since 1945 (or so) when he 'defeated' Gellert? So never used at all throughout all of VoldyWar1? I mean I really don't think the Order was very effective in the first war, but not doing anything at all?

Date: 2015-03-20 03:13 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] oryx_leucoryx
How much fighting do you think Albus engaged in personally? He was sitting in the headmaster's office, not running around the country. In HBP he leaves Hogwarts a lot, but only to look for Horcruxes, not to fight DEs.

As for the Order in general, based on what we know about how the DEs operated they had very limited, but not zero, opportunity to do much fighting. I analyzed it in my series.

Date: 2015-03-20 12:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hwyla.livejournal.com
Good point, And I agree that the Order probably did little. I was just a bit shocked to think Albus never even had to defend himself - as that would amount to the same for the wand.

Apparently the only reason to fight Voldy now would be to protect Harry. But why? We know Albus knows Voldy must kill Harry to be mortal again himself. Why keep Voldy from doing so?

Date: 2015-03-20 03:17 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] oryx_leucoryx
Voldie can't kill Harry directly, due to Lily's protection (though other DEs should have been able to do so). Any attack by Voldemort on Harry that could kill him reflects on Voldemort. That happened in Godric's Hollow, it happened in the dungeon at the end of PS and it happened again at the end of DH. Which means that if Albus had not intervened, Voldemort's AK would have destroyed his current, made-with-Harry's-blood body. (But he would have still survived, due to the Horcruxes). This means the final confrontation between Harry and Tom (happening, presumably after Albus destroyed the other Horcruxes) would be happening without the protection offered by the shared blood. In which case Harry would not survive the destruction of the Harrycrux. So Albus saves harry now in order to give him a chance to survive in the end.

Date: 2015-03-20 08:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jana-ch.livejournal.com
I was under the impression that the Lily-protection was neutralized at the end of Book Four, and that the rebounding curse at the end of Book Seven was due to the fact that the Elder Wand refused to act against its true master. Which means Voldie should have Summoned a wand from someone he had just killed in the battle and used that. Or better yet, told one of his Death Eaters to do the deed. Idiot villain!

Date: 2015-03-20 08:52 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] oryx_leucoryx
Terri analyzed it. She says Albus deliberately lied to Harry about what protection came from where (with support from canon and logic). I'll need to look it up and sort through my thoughts again to be sure.

Date: 2015-03-22 08:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nx74defiant.livejournal.com
As the series went on since the DE just got dumber.

Since Harry didn't grow and learn it was the only way he could win.

Date: 2015-03-20 07:17 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] oryx_leucoryx
Hmm. How does Lily's spell-reflecting protection apply to mental attacks? In GOF, when Voldemort Imperios Harry to bow there is no reflection. And when Voldemort sees into Harry's mind Harry doesn't always see into Voldemort's.

Date: 2015-03-26 02:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hwyla.livejournal.com
I'm not sure I would call it 'spell-reflecting'. It doesn't reflect all spell from him - not even all of Voldy's. It protects him from dying - maybe just from Voldy killing hom. It burns Quirrel, who at that point is trying to choke him, but he had Voldy inside him.

But it is also possible that her protection is what stings/shocks (unclear exactly what) Vernon when HE tried to choke Harry. I'm sorry, I forget which book. Of course, it's also possibly accidental magic on Harry's part. Unknown.

It's possible that Voldy was wrong and thought it prevented him from touching Harry when it only did so because he was trying to kill him at the time? But Lily's protection was supposed to still be working until Harry turned 17 - or at least the wards on Privet Drive were, which were tied to that protection.

But plenty of spells were cast at Harry that did not reflect, including Quirrel's broom hex - altho' I suppose that really was cast on the broom, not Harry. But if all spells reflected, then Poppy could never heal Harry.

In other words, the protection did not help against mental attacks at all.

My personal theory on Harry's resistance to imperio is that we are supposed to believe that he was so unused to feeling happy that the 'bliss' of imperio feels especially foreign to him compared to other people. And so he was able to recognize it was happening easier.

Hence also the reason Snape thought Harry ought to do well with occlumency when JKR says that Harry probably would never have gotten it due to his emotions. Snape thought Harry 'knew' his own mind better than most and would recognize the foreign mind in his own.

Of course, I find this a bit suspect as we are also supposed to believe that Harry has a happy enough thought to cast a patronus, but I suppose 'bliss' is not required for that.
Edited Date: 2015-03-26 02:23 pm (UTC)

Date: 2015-03-26 07:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jana-ch.livejournal.com
I think Harry was able to cast a Patronus and resist Imperio because he’s Uniquely Heroic and therefore better at special important magic tricks than ordinary people. He didn’t learn Occlumency from Snape because Snape is a mean, rotten, greasy teacher, but in Book Seven when he absolutely has to know Occlumency, he spontaneously learns it on his own because he’s just that Uniquely Heroic.

This, of course, undermines the “Average Guy as Hero” trope that JKR is so determined to maintain that she never allows Harry to grow and develop into anything beyond a lazy, mediocre schoolboy. Consistency? We don’t need no effing consistency!

Date: 2015-03-27 01:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hwyla.livejournal.com
I was not under the impression that Harry EVER succeeded with occlumency.

Perhaps I'm misremembering, but I had more the feeling that instead Voldy quit trying to send Harry anything.

I attribute this to Snape convincing him that continuing to send Harry messages would result in a closer connection where Harry would be able to peek in at any time unnoticed without Voldy knowing. And in the end, that's more or less how Harry found out about Voldy wanting/taking the Elder Wand.

Less that Harry succeeds at anything - more that Voldy goofs.

Date: 2015-03-27 01:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vermouth1991.livejournal.com
I don't have the book at hand, hwyla, but I can paraphrase it for you: after Dobby died and they started digging a Proper Grave for him, Harry had stirrings of VoldieVision where Bella and co. were getting their asses thrashed for letting the trio slip from Malfoy Manor (frankly, this time I'm on Voldemort's side, it was stupid of the DEs), but he was soooo overcome with grief (like he did for Sirius when V tried to possess him in the Ministry) he was able to push Voldemort back, et voila, he has Occlumency on his side now.

I don't know if Snape would be laughing in irony for this, but it's possible. ;-)
Edited Date: 2015-03-27 02:07 am (UTC)

Date: 2015-03-30 03:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hwyla.livejournal.com
But Voldy wasn't even trying to send anything to Harry - so I don't count that as 'real' occlumency. And Harry is hardly an expert to know if he was really succeeding or Voldy just became a bit bored and so the connection was lost. I remember being highly skeptical at the time I read it. I figured he would become over confident, thinking he had succeeded when he had not.

Of course it didn't happen and I suppose JKR forgot all about telling us that Harry would never be good at occlumency because unlike Draco, he 'feels' too much. And apparently Occlumens are cold-unfeeling folk.

Date: 2015-03-30 12:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vermouth1991.livejournal.com
Ahem, I doubt that *anything* Harry learnt from Voldemort's mind in DH was purposefully sent by Voldemort... so it's a moot point from the get go.

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