POA: Chapter Three

[kaskait.livejournal.com]

The Knight Bus

*Harry is at large on the streets of Magnolia Crescent and there is anger burning in his heart. But don't worry the love is there too. Its mixing with the anger to create something really good and is sure to save the world.

*Oh no, Harry's stranded in a muggle world. As if the wizarding world is any safer.

*Damn, Harry is now a fugitive and expelled from Hogwarts! He violated the underage magic rule.

*There is a lack of notices from the MOM. I'm thinking this was still during the years that Fudge was still Dumpeydore's water boy.

*Well, now that he is a magical JD, an underage runaway BUT with a vault of gold, why not just use MORE magic? To hell with it all, right Harry? I'm sure the MOM can't pin down you're whereabouts at all. Too bad you aren't as smart as Riddle. I'm sure HE knew all the places he could practice magic without getting expelled. In fact, I'm sure most of Hogwarts (who aren't friends with the trio) know where they can practice magic without being expelled.

*You know, I'm thinking that this restriction is really just to handicap powerful muggle kids.

*Harry feels as if he is being watched. He turns to see a large dog and promptly falls down in surprise.

*The knight bus arrives just in time to prolong the mystery. Damn you Shunpike.

*Shunpike jumps out of the bus to deliver his speech. He is dressed in a purple outfit and his ears are really large and his skin is pimply. I suppose that was why he didn't get a job at the MOM. He was too ugly. We can't have ugly people running around the Ministry. Nope.

*Of course Shunpike has a thick, low class accent. Which is why he is working for a bus company. Don't you just love these books? We always know who is the upper crust from the low because Harry and pals have an RP dialect. Even Ron who should really be speaking with a lower class accent. But then again, his family were most assuredly former Kings of England fallen on low times. Nothing really, really bad can happen to the heroes. The Weaselys may be poor but their blood is the PUREST OF ALL!

*Harry tells Shunpike that he is Neville Longbottom. This is the only time Harry ever thinks of Longbottom away from school. Neville can always be good for an alibi.

*Harry asks Shunpike why muggles can't see the bus. Isn't it great that Harry buys into the prejudice of this world? It is a wonderful example of how loving and giving he really is.

*Shunpike is here only to give information about Black. He is a veritable scholar on Black crimes. He also very generously gives us information on Azkaban.

*Fudge is waiting at the Leaky Cauldron for Harry. Poor Shunpike he fawns all over Fudge. I guess he is still hoping for a better job. Clear up that acne, shrink your ears and learn better pronunciation Shunpike.

*A Harry Potter series bon mot: People who don't speak well deserve the low class jobs they get.

*Another bon mot: If you aren't connected by blood or friendship to someone better, you deserve the low class job you have.

*Fudge laughs off Harry's magical mistake. He states that Aunt Marge has been obliviated and the Dursleys will take him back.

*I shudder to think of what the aurors did to the Dursleys to convince them to take back Harry.

*Harry asks Fudge if he could give him permission to go to Hogsmeade.

*I love how Harry completely forgets all the trouble he has caused and immediately just thinks about his own silly problems. Harry needs to go to Hogsmeade, dammit!

*Fudge refuses to give permission. Damn Fudge, the aurors couldn't get a signed permission note from the Dursleys while they were messing with the Dursleys memories? This is HARRY POTTER you know. He just can't be treated like any old normal person.

*Harry is shown to his room and Hedwig is waiting for him.

*I guess staying with the Weaselys was too much for even Hedwig to handle. She would have rather taken shelter with the homeless Harry. Darn, that is saying quite a bit about the Weaselys.

*Harry then sleeps the sleep of the pure and blameless at the Leaky Cauldron inn.

Comments

[harrythebrave.livejournal.com]

*Of course Shunpike has a thick, low class accent. Which is why he is working for a bus company. Don't you just love these books? We always know who is the upper crust from the low because Harry and pals have an RP dialect. Even Ron who should really be speaking with a lower class accent. But then again, his family were most assuredly former Kings of England fallen on low times. Nothing really, really bad can happen to the heroes. The Weaselys may be poor but their blood is the PUREST OF ALL!

The books are overrun with prejudice - but we are supposed to be selective in our prejudice and love the Weasleys but hate all Slytherins, etc. It's not what you come from - remember that. Even if all Weasleys are lumped together and all Slytherins are evil at eleven simply for wanting to be sorted to Slytherin.

*Fudge refuses to give permission. Damn Fudge, the aurors couldn't get a signed permission note from the Dursleys while they were messing with the Dursleys memories? This is HARRY POTTER you know. He just can't be treated like any old normal person.

So threatening them is fine but getting them to sign a permission slip for The Chosen one is too much. All the better to make Sirius seem good in Harry's eyes later by getting him to sign it - oh, yes, they accept signitures from wanted criminals (above the Minister) for permission slips to Hogsmeade! Sure Sirius is his godfather, but still... Sometimes the plotpoints have to override the logic...

[kaskait.livejournal.com]

All the better to make Sirius seem good in Harry's eyes later by getting him to sign it - oh, yes, they accept signitures from wanted criminals (above the Minister) for permission slips to Hogsmeade! Sure Sirius is his godfather, but still... Sometimes the plotpoints have to override the logic...

Right. I'm sure it wouldn't attract too much attention to Sirius when he signed that permission slip. Plus it wasn't even the Dursleys fault that they didn't sign the slip. Harry ran away.

But wait, Harry is always blameless because he is full of pure...er...love.

[woman-ironing.livejournal.com]

Found myself here when I tried to open an umbrella at the roadside.

Hey, what's with this imputation that bus conductors must necessarily be thick? And what is this class thing of which you speak? Some of my best friends are bus conductors! (Which you will know is a barefaced lie because my writing speaks with RP, and anyway there is no longer any such thing as a bus conductor. Okay, some of my best friends are actually former Kings of England.)

[kaskait.livejournal.com]

Then why, pray tell, did the book find it necessary to use this dialect for Stan's speech?

"Woss that on your ead?"

If this was an egalitarian society with proper education for all (for a population considerably smaller than non-magical people) then why is Stan stuck in this job, with a horrible accent and sucking up to Fudge?

Why is Ron given proper pronunciation in the book or even Harry. Why aren't they given slang written speech like Stan? If its not written like that, then they don't speak with accents. They speak with proper diction. Which is only correct because they are the elite in these books.

The movies are another matter.

[saylee.livejournal.com]

What's worse is that Stan is only supposed to be a couple of years older than Harry, but he clearly doesn't go to Hogwarts and it's supposed to be the only magical school in Britain. Are working class kids not entitled to an education in the wizarding world? The only person we see athogwarts who seems to come from a working class background is Snape (maybe Hagrid?).

[kaskait.livejournal.com]

I think he probably did go to Hogwarts and didn't do so well in 5th year. So he was out by 6th.

You see, Hogwarts gives a place but it doesn't do much more than that. Unless you're a special case like Harry or even the Weaselys.

I mean if the Twins did so bad on their O.W.L.s, why were they allowed to stay? And, if Stan (theoretically) did just as awful, why did he leave?

Plus even more strange is that noone Harry knows speaks with such a crazy dialect unless it is Hagrid. Well Hagrid was kicked out.

What did Snape do? He got rid of his accent. Which puts him in the same spot as the Dursleys. He is trying to be something he isn't and thats BAD to the BONE.

[woman-ironing.livejournal.com]

Then why, pray tell, did the book find it necessary to use this dialect for Stan's speech?

Because the working classes with their quaint accents are intrinsically comical;) Just ask Shakespeare!

Does egalitarian mean everyone speaking with the same voice, then? And the only jobs being the white-collar type? Why should Stan not be happy working as a bus conductor? Looks like fun to me, and he gets to meet celebrities. (Actually, I thought he was a little free with Mr Fudge. Had they been introduced?) But woss wrong wiv Stan's accent? Uh? We all talk like that round here, dahling - I mean, darlin'.

Why is Ron given proper pronunciation in the book or even Harry. Why aren't they given slang written speech like Stan?

Because it would be tedious. The apostrophes alone! Mind you, I always like to read Harry as a scouser myself...

[kaskait.livejournal.com]

Because the working classes with their quaint accents are intrinsically comical;) Just ask Shakespeare!

Then why doesn't Harry attend school with ANY student who speaks like Stan? Hmmm, its comical, so why not include a whole boatload of them?

I'm pointing out the way the books are written, not trying to justify its choices. Right now, as it stands, the books are based on classism and the hero condones it. Whether or not the author changes it in the future is unknown.

[saylee.livejournal.com]

*Harry is at large on the streets of Magnolia Crescent and there is anger burning in his heart. But don't worry the love is there too. Its mixing with the anger to create something really good and is sure to save the world.

I'm picturing Harry's insides as some sort of chemistry experiment, now. Maybe all that mixing helps fertilize the chest monster egg he picked up from Hagrid's coat in PS.

*You know, I'm thinking that this restriction is really just to handicap powerful muggle kids.

Nah, it's there to make Harry seem properly put upon, even if the rules end up being waived for him after all.

*Shunpike is here only to give information about Black. He is a veritable scholar on Black crimes. He also very generously gives us information on Azkaban.

Maybe that knowledge will come in handy for him when he's arrested for being a Death Eater a few years from now.

*A Harry Potter series bon mot: People who don't speak well deserve the low class jobs they get.

That is, unless they're loyal followers of Dumbledore. Then they deserve promotions to jobs they are completely unqualified for.

[kaskait.livejournal.com]

Maybe that knowledge will come in handy for him when he's arrested for being a Death Eater a few years from now.

That also gives Harry the cache of being a friend to the working class. Yep. He is almost a marxist that Harry. He rode on a bus!

[artystone.livejournal.com]

The Weaselys may be poor but their blood is the PUREST OF ALL!


...BECAUSE they're poor!

[kaskait.livejournal.com]

Oh yes,

I know that old myth, To be poor is to be more authentic.

I think most people would take money to pay bills over authenticity any day.

[anehan]

I'd like to be authentically rich. Inauthentic money does not my bills pay.

[teratologist.livejournal.com]

Well, it could, but then the police get testy.

[papier.livejournal.com]

Just some random trivia: I always thought Stan Shunpike was named after Rowling's Grandfather, who was a bus conductor called Stan. Whether or not he was a cockney one I don't know, but I believe her parents did come from London, so it's a possibility.

Then again, he may not have been a bus conductor at all, and she just randomly named him Stan after one of her grandparents. It was a while ago since I read it; I'm sure it was on her website, but it might have come from that stupid interview which I can't be bothered to look at now...well, in any case, she named him after someone close in the family, that much is true.

I honestly can't say whether she's commenting on class from her own bias or just commenting on the world as she sees it. She was very poor herself before HP, so even if she does look down on the lower classes or people with so-called lower-class accents, she was walking along the poverty line herself at one time.

As I live in Greater London, just a few miles from the surrey suburbs, I know that people who live there don't tend to have any sort of inflections to their voice worth noting, so I get why Harry's dialogue isn't written like Hagrid's or Stan's. I do wonder about the Weasleys though - don't they live in Devon, supposedly? Why don't they talk like Hagrid?

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's a put down, either. It's just that this is not an area where the books lean more towards the old-fashioned aspect of the series rather than the more modern. For instance, if these books were written decades ago presumably everybody would be white, but she's made a point of making it more multicultural. She didn't feel the need to do the same with lots of different accents or backgrounds--most of the kids' backgrounds work back to Ministry employees, maybe because that's more helpful for the plot. But even so there's a lot of representation from the upper scale with the Purebloods. So it just winds up we've got the uneducated groundskeeper and the busdriver whose accents are funny. (Or annoying, or whatever.)

The Weasleys are impovrished because they have a lot of kids, but Arthur's a government employee (often quoted in the paper) and the kids are on the same level. I would think they'd all sound like Arthur. Accents noted in the books don't seem to always be strictly about region. Also presumably they're from Harry's pov, so he wouldn't be aware of his own accent--though we'd get something from his word choices for dialect if he said something particularly unique.

[anehan]

I think it's very interesting to note that it's the working-class accents are the one played for laughs. I'm not British, and not even a native English speaker, so maybe I'm totally wrong, but I think it'd have been possible to play upper-class accents (like Draco and Justin presumambly would have--I can now totally see Harry and Ron making fun of Draco's "stuck-up" accent) for laughs. Just last week my prof imitated a British upper-class accent and the class was in hysterics.

[kaskait.livejournal.com]

Yes, I wonder why those weren't sporked in the book.

On the other hand, there seems to be open-season declared on French accents.

[kaskait.livejournal.com]

I'm not making any comments on Rowling's experience. That isn't my business.

But she seems particularly aware of class issues and she has filled this series with them. Stan being one case. When I mock part of the story, its mocking the story not the author or real bus conductors.

Harry, in the story, thinks the WW is a pretty good society. But we keep getting daily examples in the text that suggest it is anything but good. The WW likes to congratulate itself on how wonderful it is and how bad non-magical society is all the time. But again, class issues keep rearing up even when this society is multi-cultural.

Who do we have, in the books, being critical of this world? We have Hermione, and her efforts to change things (as naive and sneaky as they were) were constantly denigrated by Ron. Noone else has questioned these problems. Harry seemed to start by the end of book 5 but by book 6, they no longer mattered.

Why indeed, don't the Weaselys speak like Hagrid? Its the small things that speak to me that point to them being "fallen aristocrats". Harry once noted that the Burrow seemed to be the remnant of a much larger house. Arthur holds a job in the MOM, which seems to appoint certain families. Molly seems to be desperately clinging to this notion of keeping up the appearance of old family glory. If this reading is correct, then the Weaselys and Prewitts were once large landholding Purebloods and they never spoke in the regional dialect. They spoke in whatever dialect the current mores conceived of as proper for their station.

I hope Harry has a big awakening in book 7 about just what kind of society he is expected to support.

[papier.livejournal.com]

I'm not making any comments on Rowling's experience. That isn't my business.

But she seems particularly aware of class issues and she has filled this series with them. Stan being one case. When I mock part of the story, its mocking the story not the author or real bus conductors.

Oh, I know you wouldn't mock real bus conductors (not that there are many left now anyway). I agree that she is mostly playing the accents for laughs - Krum being unable to pronounce Hermione, for one thing. I spent years pronouncing it 'Her-me-own-knee' because I'm a dunce, but I'm as English as - well, an English person.
And then there's Fleur's every phonic being spelt out for her - pretty patronising. I feel sorry for any French kids living in regions that sell the English edition. There might even be a sort of uprise in the amount of French exchange students being called Fleur Delacour behind their backs. I know of one or two bushy-haired girls who get called 'Hermiones'.

Harry, in the story, thinks the WW is a pretty good society. But we keep getting daily examples in the text that suggest it is anything but good. The WW likes to congratulate itself on how wonderful it is and how bad non-magical society is all the time. But again, class issues keep rearing up even when this society is multi-cultural.

The only real differences between the WW and our world is that the Wizarding world has magic, and their prejudice issues are based more on blood purity than race or religion. Harry knows it, and as a half-blood himself he gets crap about it, but he doesn't ever have a SPEW moment like Hermione and decide to try and do something about it, which once again shows his lack of initiative as a main character. He needs to be prodded into doing literally everything.

Who do we have, in the books, being critical of this world? We have Hermione, and her efforts to change things (as naive and sneaky as they were) were constantly denigrated by Ron. Noone else has questioned these problems. Harry seemed to start by the end of book 5 but by book 6, they no longer mattered.

Any attempts at change in the WW are usually mocked. It's like when men laughed at the idea of women having the vote, and the women who tried to do something weren't taken seriously. Ron's definitely got a few issues on women himself (no doubt handed down by those twins). It's only when a woman threw herself in front of the king's horse at the races did people suddenly decide to listen to the suffragettes. The wizarding world still has this blind-eye thing going on no matter what seems to happen; there's a maniac trying to kill them all because he believes in blood supremecy. Surely this is the time to bring in a few laws about treatment of non-purebloods? The word Mudblood seems to be thrown around quite easily at Hogwarts and yet the worst said about it is that it's a 'disgusting word'. Is it illegal to call someone a Mudblood? Doesn't seem like it. Why isn't it?

Why indeed, don't the Weaselys speak like Hagrid? Its the small things that speak to me that point to them being "fallen aristocrats". Harry once noted that the Burrow seemed to be the remnant of a much larger house. Arthur holds a job in the MOM, which seems to appoint certain families. Molly seems to be desperately clinging to this notion of keeping up the appearance of old family glory. If this reading is correct, then the Weaselys and Prewitts were once large landholding Purebloods and they never spoke in the regional dialect. They spoke in whatever dialect the current mores conceived of as proper for their station.

That's a pretty sound theory - I guess it also adds to the fact that they are isolated from the neighbouring Muggles. Perhaps when Gideon and Fabian died Molly lost out? Perhaps they left widows that recieved their inheritence and/or property.

[merrymelody.livejournal.com]

Any attempts at change in the WW are usually mocked.

I agree that generally the WW is a pretty unquestioning, even unthinking, traditional place.
It doesn't seem like there are many characters or groups who are truly independent thinkers - most (especially the female characters) have some kind of figure they willingly defer to; and obviously the Order and DA while apparently being portrayed by the author as rebellious pretty much follow the usual way of things - the Order use a lot the corrupt tactics they complain about the Ministry using, for example.

Is it illegal to call someone a Mudblood? Doesn't seem like it. Why isn't it?

I don't think legislation would be a very effective idea.
I mean, it's an issue that affects RL, obviously - there have been a lot of cases in the UK about where to draw the line and whether or not people and political groups should be prosecuted for and what determines 'hate speech'; and there are countries where things like denying the Holocaust is a crime punishable with jail time.
And obviously there's no one right way, but it's my opinion that if you want to live in a liberal society (of course, not everybody does - certainly the WW doesn't appear to be a very liberal environment - but legislation for hate speech is an issue more classically associated with being politically left-wing, afaik) you have to accept a certain amount of what you don't like in the name of freedom, and legally punishing people for having views that are repugnant (in the WW, there'd be no-one left) just gives strength to the misapprehension they're usually under that they're victims/minorities; and even builds sympathy for them among the general public.

[romeoambiences.livejournal.com]

he doesn't ever have a SPEW moment like Hermione and decide to try and do something about it,

I have a major problem with Hermione's SPEW moment as she doesn't bother to involve the elves in choices which affect them. That would be okay if we were talking about dogs or cats who can't think or speak for themselves, but the elves are not muggle "pets". Has Hermione (obsessive researcher) even looked into their history? How much do we know about their ties to wizarding families and how that came about?

Is it illegal to call someone a Mudblood? Doesn't seem like it. Why isn't it?

Freedom of Speech? It doesn't seem to be illegal to hex or curse fellow students (except for the unforgiveables?...I actually am curious if being underage provides exceptions), so it would seem rather bizarre to make that illegal.

Should a punishment be given at a school for using that word? I think so. But I also think that a teacher who uses transfiguration as a punishment of a student should be fired. That didn't happen. There are many instances where decisions were made or not made which left me
baffled.

Going off on a tangent

[anehan]

Harry knows it, and as a half-blood himself he gets crap about it

But does he, really? Off the top of my head, I can't remember any instance where he does. (People who remember the books better than me, please feel free to provide examples.) That's really part of my problem with this conflict that's going on in the WW. It's presented, IMO, partly as the pureblood vs. the Muggle-born, and I get the feeling that we are supposed to think that the Good Guys are against discrimination against the Muggle-born.

But the problem here is, I think, that we don't really see how the Muggle-born are discriminated against. Hermione, Justin, Colin and other Muggle-borns aren't really disadvantaged at Hogwarts, and we get no sense that they're disadvantaged outside Hogwarts, either. Sure there's some hate speech, but even there it's often very personal instead of institutionalized or systematic, e.g. when Draco insults Hermione or Snape insults Lily. Those instances do, of course, reveal Draco's and Snape's prejudices, because when they want to hurt Hermione and Lily, they go for the worst possible insult they can think of (not realizing that for Hermione or Lily it doesn't have the same kind of meaning) which, for them, is the word "Mudblood". But do those people suffer in any other way? I can't see that they do.

I think partly we're restricted by the Harry-filter. He's not the most observant guy, and the only Muggle-born he knows is Hermione, who is probably protected to some extent by her association with Harry. Besides, we haven't had any opportunity to see how being a Muggle-born might, for example, hinder one's career. I see all that intellectually. It's just that, to be able to believe that the conflict really is about purity of blood, or something like that, I'd have to see that purity of blood really matters.

'Course, the Good Guys' attitude doesn't really help me in any way to see that they are against purity of blood. Their attitude against Muggles is in many ways similar to the Bad Guys', except that they don't want to kill Muggles. Care to bet they think that Muggle-borns are okay--after all, they're not Muggles? (Would Molly react badly if Ron married Hermione?)

So, all these things make me think that the conflict is less about purity of blood than about Dumbledore vs. Voldemort, or conservative purebloods vs. "progressive" purebloods, etc. Throw in the Ministry, and it's basically a power-struggle rather than an epic battle between Good and Evil.

Ron's definitely got a few issues on women himself (no doubt handed down by those twins).

Or Molly. Scarlet women, anyone?

[anehan]

Yet Molly doesn't seem to fit the "fallen aristocrat" type. Someone somewhere made the case that Molly was from a lower class than Arthur. I can't remember how it went, but it had something to with how Molly believed the Daily Prophet very easily, and other things. (Does anyone remember how it went?) Although I'm sure she's a pureblood, her background doesn't seem to be as upper-class or upper-middle-class as Arthur's.

OTOH, there is, as you say, "this notion of keeping up the appearance of old family glory". Could it be that she acts like she believes an old, respected pureblood family should act?

[kaskait.livejournal.com]

Someone somewhere made the case that Molly was from a lower class than Arthur. I can't remember how it went, but it had something to with how Molly believed the Daily Prophet very easily, and other things. (Does anyone remember how it went?) Although I'm sure she's a pureblood, her background doesn't seem to be as upper-class or upper-middle-class as Arthur's.

I think it was Red Hen who suggested that explanation. It works. But I think Arthur is the real deal and Molly seems really set on battling to keep up the old ways. Even if Arthur has let them go forever.

Poor Molly, she makes it into one of the old families and discovers they are on the way out. How disappointing for her.