PS Chapter Seventeen

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

*Hee! I forgot how funny Quirrel is about Snape—pointing out that he just "seems the type" to be the villain, and that it’s useful having him "swooping around like an overgrown bat." Not that these particular remarks sink into Harry’s head.

*Though he loses some cool points when he admits that his murder attempt on Harry was ruined when a 12-year-old girl knocked him over. Don’t go spreading that story around at the next meeting of the Villain’s Guild, Quirrell.

*Wait, Snape wanted to referee the match to look after Harry? You mean it’s not his mission in life to make sure Harry’s school team doesn’t take the cup? Impossible!

*Not only did Quirrell’s troll fail to beat Harry to death, but the giant dog didn’t bite off the right leg. Too bad Quirrell died. He and Malfoy might have gone out for drinks when Malfoy was older and commiserate on living in a Universe designed to revolve around Harry Potter’s needs.

*Yes, Snape hates you. But he never wanted you dead. Seven books later, people are still struggling valiantly with this contradiction.

*There is no good and evil, only Gryffindor and Slytherin, which is a much clearer distinction.

*Although I don’t buy the theory about Quirrell still being alive because he represents JKR’s abused self, I am impressed at the way she uses that abuse victim language to good effect with her villain. Lord Voldemort has had to be very hard on Quirrell when he lets them down. Leaves open challenge to black_dog to talk about that with regard to Draco’s issues with mastery.

*To continue down my well-worn Draco path for a moment, this is one small area where spoiling isn’t the worst thing in JKR’s universe. It may be a bad way to raise a child, in her view, but expecting to be treated well is actually a good thing to have around LV. Whatever other crazy things he thinks, Draco does not seem to feel badly about letting Voldemort down by having trouble killing somebody.

*Harry wonders how he could have been so stupid not to know Quirrell was after the stone when he saw him in Diagon Alley the day of the break in. Harry always has the strangest ideas about when he is and isn’t being stupid. Harry, stupid was this plan to steal the Stone yourself. Not jumping to the conclusion that somebody must be evil because you saw them in Diagon Alley the same day you and half the WW was also there is not stupid.

*Though I guess it does seem significant that *both* the Stone thieves were in Diagon Alley that day. If Harry had been caught here by himself somebody might use the same evidence against him: THE BOY WHO LIVES WANTS TO KEEP ON LIVING—AND HE’LL ROB BANKS TO DO IT!

*Harry’s reflection is a lot cooler than he is.

* Quirrel turns around and there’s a hideously deformed snake face on the back of his head. Awesome.

*See what I have become? asks Voldemort. Just shadow and Vapour. Somebody break it to the man he’s not shadow or vapour, he’s a hideous snake face on the back of someone else’s head!

*But there are those who have let Voldemort into their hearts and minds. You might want to remember that when you’re getting ready to marry that sneering she-beast with the violent temper, Harry. I’d recommend checking under her dancing flame hair before you make any commitments.

*At least Harry’s got his priorities straight. His parents did NOT die begging for mercy. They died as they lived: natural bullies!

*Nice of Voldemort to use the little strength he has to deliver some seemingly unrelated exposition. Did I mention your mother didn’t have to die and was trying to protect you? Got that? Yesssssss…

*Too bad we’ve never seen the Dursleys’ blood protection in action the way we see Lily’s here.

*Is there a movie difference here? I have some vague memory there is—like, does Harry actually kill Quirrell in the movie where here he just sizzles him to keep him from killing him?

*Harry wakes up in the hospital wing surrounded by tokens from his friends and admirers. Those would be the same people who have been shunning him for weeks.

*Um, how does everyone know what happened between Harry and Quirrell?

*The toilet seat’s supposed to be funny, in case you didn’t get it. Don’t ask me why. Fred and George are twins!

*This book oddly suffers from the fact that JKR couldn’t have known she’d get to write all seven. Everyone knows about what happened because she’s gearing up to shower Harry with victories in case this is her ending. In fifth year she’ll have to kind of take that back so he can feel all misunderstood again.

*Down in the dungeons Malfoy’s trying to make jokes about Harry stealing the stone for Voldemort and pointing out that if he hadn’t gone down there Quirrell would have just been caught with Voldemort with him and that would have ultimately been better for everyone, but nobody listens to him.

*Dumbledore says he sees Harry can not be distracted. LOL! He doesn’t know Harry very well. He can be quite distracted when the plot calls for it.

*Dumbledore points out Harry was doing very well on his own when Dumbledore got there. Good show burning the man’s face off, my lad. Hydrochloric Harry we shall call you from now on!

*Dumbledore and Nicholas had a little chat and decided it was for the best that Nicholas died now. This wouldn’t have been anything like the little chat Dumbledore had with Kreacher in OotP, would it?

*To the well-organized mind, death is just the next great adventure. But since few Gryffindors have organized minds they just think everything’s the next great adventure. Makes it easier. Less thinking involved.

*Humans have a knack for choosing what’s worst for them. Except you, Harry. You’re so special. How’d you get to be so awesome?

*Dumbledore tells Harry to call the villain Voldemort, because that’s his proper name. Um, Albus? Isn’t Tom Riddle his proper name? Maybe you should tell everybody to call him that. I guarantee he would consider that bad publicity. Especially if you published photos of him when he was a first year playing Joan of Arc. (Friday is One-Act night in Slytherin.)

*Voldemort left Quirrell to die, showing how he shows as little mercy to his followers as to his enemies. To be fair, what could Voldemort have done to help Quirrell besides look sympathetic? He’s just a face.

*The truth should be treated with great caution, says Dumbledore, going all Winston Churchill. Though of course Churchill didn’t personally puppet master small children.

*Dumbledore can’t tell Harry why Voldemort wanted to kill him in the first place, perhaps because it might make what he just said about Voldemort maybe never coming back start to seem unlikely.

*Dumbledore does promise that when Harry is ready, he will know…about 9 months after he’s ready, to be exact.

*To have been loved so deeply will give us some protection forever. Which is kind of a misdirection again, because every kid in Harry’s class has probably been loved the same way he was as a baby. The special part is that whole strange spell that got cast because of the exact circumstances. Unless he’s suggesting that Quirrell couldn’t touch Ron, Hermione, Neville or any other kid in Harry’s class either.

*Let’s pause to imagine what the class would have done with that kind of magic if they’d known about it. "Eight inches of essay, Professor? I don’t think so!" Poke poke sizzle poke.

*Awww. Dumbledore looked out the window to give Harry time to dry his eyes on the sheet. Such a little soldier, our Harry.

*Slytherins get far more into their crying—no looking away and discreetly wiping the eyes for them. Plant yourself in front of an old friend, or better yet a mirror that’s cracked like your soul, and let go!

*Dumbledore, twinkling, tells Harry how he gave him the cloak because it might be useful. And see, he used it to almost get himself killed!

*Btw Harry, do you love me best, yet? It was me who gave you the cool present. Me, the guy who was concerned you might be a "pampered prince" when you showed up. Did you enjoy Quidditch? I bent the rules so you could play.

*Dumbledore draws the parallel between James/Snape and Harry/Draco. Oddly, the parallel he draws is that both pairs detested each other, not that in each case one was a blameless innocent victim and the other a dreadful scum who bullied him for no reason.

*Funny the way peoples’ minds work, Dumbledore says dreamily. Because the way Snape’s grown up into a bitter, twisted person who feels incredibly ill-used while James was unjustly showered with attention and praise is just dreamy to think about.

*Hmmm…I’ve never noticed this, but Dumbledore says maybe Snape worked so hard first year to protect Harry because it might mean he and James could call it quits. That seems to suggest that Life Debt issue might be completely secondary. Like maybe saving Harry at various times might be connected to wanting to pay James back, but making up for getting the Potters (and therefore Lily) targeted is something different and more about Voldemort. Perhaps we’ll learn that in each case James and Harry were just an annoying distraction.

*Wait, did I just suggest Harry wasn’t the center of all things? Sorry. Scratch that.

*Dumbledore gets all conceited over his super mirror trap, which is a nice groundwork for his fatal flaws later.

*Unsurprisingly, Harry doesn’t make the connection that Quirrell would never have been able to get the Stone at all if it hadn’t been for him, so he actually did something really stupid. Nope, still the most heroic!

*Okay wait, everybody doesn’t know what happened, they just know wild rumours. Does this add to Harry’s rep as a Dark Magician?

*Ron looks quite impressed at how mad his hero is. I shudder to think of Dumbledore as Ron’s hero.

*I wonder if that was ever part of the Ron-is-Dumbledore theory. Because Dumbledore’s conceited enough that he would be impressed by his own self.

*Hermione says she brought Ron around and that took a while. Enough for a medium-length R/Hr hurt/comfort PWP fic, no doubt.

*Hermione says it would have been terrible if Dumbledore meant for Harry to go after the Stone. Harry proves he really did sustain a bad head injury by saying it wouldn’t have been terrible.

*You see, he would have thought it was good to let Harry face the psychopathic supernatural murderer himself. People today coddle kids too much, what with the child protection services, and those policemen who go after child predators. Every body deserves a chance to test himself against a pedophile himself. Otherwise he might grow up a pansy.

*Throughout this speech still nobody points out that the Trio didn’t HELP at all. They made things worse.

*Slytherin’s won, of course. Um, of course?

*Oh, and we lost Quidditch without Harry. Presumably they just played with no Seeker at all. Because that makes no sense whatsoever, and only Slytherins postpone games when they have no Seeker. That’s admitting weakness.

*Harry’s got lots of Sweet Boxes but this doesn’t reflect badly on him at all. Just thought I’d say that. It’s not like getting a care package from your mother.

*Hagrid arrives, saying it’s all his fault. Let’s pause here and respect the only time Hagrid says something intelligent throughout the series.

*Impressively, although Hagrid is confessing what an idiot he is, he manages to put it into a bigoted context, saying that he’s such an idiot should be chucked out to live as a Muggle. Oh, please do it. Hagrid would last about three hours as a Muggle.

*Naturally it’s all just a passive-aggressive plea for sympathy and Harry assures him it’s really no big deal that he was given important, sensitive, dangerous information and betrayed the secret.

*Harry tells him "we" saved the Stone. Um, again, Harry you really didn’t help. If you want to take credit for something, take credit for killing Quirrell. That you maybe did.

*Sadly, soon after getting out of the Infirmary Harry is met by the sickening sight of Malfoy looking happy. They may have won the battle against evil, but the war goes on.

*Dumbledore then stands up and gives the most unbelievable show of favouritism in the history of children’s books. I’m sure it took him days to come up with. I can see him standing in the Great Hall days before, considering adding the points, and then saying, ‘Hmm…wouldn’t it be better if along with Gryffindor winning I could suck up to Harry by insulting all of Slytherin? Yes, I think I will psych Slytherin out and make it look like they won so I can snatch it away from them and change all the hangings in the Great Hall for dramatic effect. Should I make everyone sing a song to Harry too? No, too much. Might embarrass the lad. Slowly, Albus. Suck the boy in slowly…’

*I can’t believe some of the defenses I’ve read for this scene. Not just "JKR wanted to give Harry a really happy ending" ones—those are fine. But the ones where Dumbledore’s giving a well-deserved lesson to all this Slytherin stuff we didn’t see going on but must have been because if they’re treated badly it must be justice.

*It’s all great they won and all, but it’s not a real victory until Harry can poke Ron and show Malfoy looking stunned. Because after everything he’s done in this book, he really deserves a big punishment. He was snotty, and he overheard about that dragon egg and tried to get himself invited, and he was insulting to kids who don’t like him, and he almost tricked our hero into getting in trouble using his noble desire to beat him up! Oh, and he put a leg-locker on Neville. I hope somebody poisoned his pumpkin juice too, for good measure. Why is this child allowed to live?

*Even Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff are celebrating the downfall of Slytherin. They just are.

*To be fair, that might have made sense in the first book where we we were told Slytherin always won and we were naïve enough to think this caused solidarity amongst the other three houses, but six years later Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff are still celebrating the never-ending victory of Gryffindor, so now it’s just stupid.

*Snape’s feelings towards Harry haven’t changed one jot. Oh, I beg to differ Harry. I think after this disgusting display he hates you even more.

*Apparently all the students know each other’s marks. That way our heroes can make judgments about others.

*Ron’s inviting Harry and Hermione to stay that summer. Hermione immediately makes plans to move out of her parents’ house.

*Ginny’s pointing and squealing at Harry, but in her case she’s pointing and squealing at the real, true Harry inside and not distracted by his fame.

*Hermione’s shocked anyone could be so unpleasant as Vernon. Funny. It’s not Uncle Vernon who’s disfigured anyone for life.

*And Harry goes off, announcing that he’s looking forward to a summer full of bullying Dudley to get back at him. Maybe he could start dressing like a bat as well.





Designated Hero
Is anyone going to break it to Harry that the Stone was saved in spite of his meddling and not because of it? I understand not wanting to make the kid feel bad but as a Gryffindor he probably needs this kind of intervention early.

Idiot Picture
Unless, of course, they haven’t figured out that Harry endangered the Stone themselves…

Idiot World
Dumbledore goes on to tell Harry that maybe enough people will fight Voldemort so that he never returns. Bwahahaha! Just kidding. Of course only Harry can do it. Have you seen the idiots in this world? Prophecy said so.

James Bond Exposition Rule
Take it, Professor Quirrell! With Voldemort on back-up.

Ken’s Rule of Guns
Maybe you ought to go closer to Harry, Quirrell, before you kill him.

Misdirected Answering
Harry tries to scold himself for being stupid, but misdirects his scolding.

Final score: 6

Signs of things to come: Harry does bondage. Our first Villain Explains It All Chapter. Quirrell’s "He (Voldemort) is with me wherever I go" is our first "in this universe that’s not a metaphor" moment. Harry loses his first Quidditch match by being unconscious, the only way he can ever lose. Dumbledore sets a new precedent for unfair scoring policies in House Cup competitions. Hagrid’s bigotry is presented as cute. Hagrid does something stupid and dangerous and is still one of the heroes. Losing to Gryffindor is like a victory in itself.

Comments

[artystone.livejournal.com]

It's too bad the Harry Potter series is satanic. It would have made Bill ORLY's task in writing The ORLY Factor For Kids a lot easier--and a better seller.

[saylee.livejournal.com]

Harry tells him "we" saved the Stone. Um, again, Harry you really didn’t help. If you want to take credit for something, take credit for killing Quirrell. That you maybe did.

And that's not something that disturbs him or anything later, either. Unless I'm forgetting some part of the books.

I don't think you are. If I remember right, he thinks about how killing Voldemort will make him a murderer, even though Voldie's out to get him, completely forgetting that he basically killed Quirrell when he was eleven.

[artystone.livejournal.com]

I can back you up, I've read this one too. More than once.

*headdesk*

[dried-frog-pill.livejournal.com]

....o.o You're serious, aren't you. Oh dear god. *headdesk*

Re: more tomorrow

[merrymelody.livejournal.com]

I know, it reminds me of GoF! (Which naturally, they also changed. See, I know the movie suck on so many levels, but if I were JKR I might start to wonder why my books need so many changes.)
'That villain who was tormenting you all year under an assumed identity? Yeah, he's gone. Dead, probably. No, dramatically, this doesn't call for a scene or anything, it can just be told to you as idle gossip, like your soulmate's personality change.'

[anehan]

I agree. OTOH, I think Sirius did have a personal relationship with Harry, even before he went to Azkaban. If he spent as much time with the Potters as I imagine he did, I think it'd be a bit hard for him to not think of Harry as his own person (mini one-year-old James?). Azkaban would probably have messed with his head, though, so he'd probably have thought of Harry as mini!James.

It's weird to think about it, because I didn't have the feeling in GoF that Sirius was thinking of Harry as a replacement for James. Harry was his godson, pure and simple. Then, in OotP, it felt like he thought that Harry should be filling James's place. Did Grimmauld really have that big an effect on him?

[anehan]

Yeah, possibly. But Sirius seems to be the kind of person who could have fallen in love with baby!Harry the moment he saw him. He was Harry's godfather, after all. But Harry has no memory of those days, of course.

Like I said above to static_pixie, there's this weird disconnect between GoF and OotP. In GoF Sirius seems to be interested in Harry, his godson, whereas in OotP it's all about Harry, James's son.

But yeah, Draco's totally the only one who had no clue whatsoever of who Harry was. He was just, "There's a cool guy over there! Dressed in rags! (Must be a mark of good breeding.) Let us be friends!" *loves Draco*

[merrymelody.livejournal.com]

Ginny as much as says, 'I like you so much because I think you're a noble, gallant hero', so it's clear her position hasn't changed all that much.

Yes, exactly.
It's not impossible to have a start like Harry/Ginny's where it started inequally and shallowly and grew to more, but to do that, JKR would have to remove Ginny's 'hero' blinders (lol, or perhaps her own?) and Harry's superficiality and have both of them recognising each other's true personalities, flaws as well as virtues.
At the moment, Ginny has almost no personality, which Harry's content with; and Ginny has never really had any kind of realisation that Harry isn't the hero she thinks (the whole 'I like you so much because you're noble!' is disingenous, not only because it almost seems to be suggesting that Ginny's right to idolise Harry so and that he is the 'rock god' he's cracked up to be - especially hypocritical since celebrity worship is so mercilessly skewered with Lockhart; but because that's not what Rowling wrote.
Unless she sees Ginny as even more of a Sue, who at 10 had an innate hatred of the Dark Arts and Voldemort and fell in love with his most prominent defyer (sp? word? ;), what she wrote was that Ginny had a crush on Harry without knowing his personality and because he was famous, so her options are either that Ginny's lying/kidding herself, Ginny's a Sue, or she's used retroactive continuity once more.)

And yeah, it's always been interesting that literally none of Harry's friends ever met him with a clean slate, it's only Draco. Hagrid, Dumbledore, Ginny, Ron, Hermione, Neville, Luna... they always come to the relationships knowing he's a celebrity/TBWL.

[merrymelody.livejournal.com]

If Harry had had control of his powers at the same early age as Tom, I'm not at all certain that he'd only have used them for good.

Yes, it's not encouraging that the first thing he wants in the magical world is a book of curses for Dudley, either. (Wasn't Voldemort using his magic young to 'punish and control'? Cause I'm thinking cursing mean Muggles falls under both.)
(And going on with the frightening Movie!Harry, doesn't he not just let the snake out because he identifies with it's emo victim status, but to punish Dudley, and then seals the glass over, so Dudley's trapped? And laughs? That kid scares me.)

[baeraad.livejournal.com]

*Yes, Snape hates you. But he never wanted you dead.

I did love that part, it made me feel like I was reading about a universe that made sense - where there was no neat divide into "friends" and "enemies" and people could dislike you without being bad people.

(*groans*) Little did I know.

And to make it worse, people are still throwing Snape in my face whenever I complain that the HP books paint everything in black and white. I just want to yell, "ONE GRAY CHARACTER THAT GETS CONSTANTLY ABUSED BY THE AUTHOR AND WHOM WE ARE SUPPOSED TO HATE ANYWAY DOES NOT GRAY CHARACTERISATION MAKE!"

Ahem.

* Quirrel turns around and there’s a hideously deformed snake face on the back of his head. Awesome.

Okay, this part I still love. :D It's just so creepy.

*To the well-organized mind, death is just the next great adventure.

Yep. And only a psychopath would believe that there's nothing worse than death.

At the same time, murder is the most horrible crime ever, oh my God, and it takes your soul away, and we have such a tremendous esteem for human life!

Does this make sense to anyone? If so, kindly explain. ^_^;

Maybe you ought to go closer to Harry, Quirrell, before you kill him.

Yes, this confused me... if Quirrel can tie Harry up by snapping his fingers at the beginning of the scene, why is he reduced to physically strangling him at the end of it?

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

I don't buy Grimmauld having that effect on him when Azkaban didn't, though. Whatever bad memories Grimmauld brought up would have been inflicted on him by the dementors of Azkaban, anyway. I think the characterization of Sirius was jerked around rather implausibly between GoF and OotP, and fanwanking a reason for it is pretty tough if not impossible.

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

At the same time, murder is the most horrible crime ever, oh my God, and it takes your soul away, and we have such a tremendous esteem for human life!

Does this make sense to anyone? If so, kindly explain.

On a meta-level? Sure. JKR, much like Hamlet, is torn between warrior-culture virtues (i.e., laughing in the face of death, taking up arms against a sea of troubles and in so doing ending them, etc.) and Christian values (human life is sacred, courting death is a sin, meekly suffering the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune without taking vengeance, etc.). Her book is schizoid on the issue because she is.

Doesn't make the narrative make sense, but it explains why it doesn't make sense.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I file this girl under "phantom third Ginny"--the chatterbox Ron mentions. Because New!Ginny would never jump up and down this way. She's by definition too cool to be overcome by Harry's rock star qualities.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I just find this hilarious, because you'd think the first thing to do with someone like Voldemort is refuse to call him by his name. It's not exactly a secret who he is, because he's got a history, yet Dumbledore doesn't tell it to anyone except Harry. It's a huge way of helping LV.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I've heard that defense too--quite often, in fact. It's completely ridiculous.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I always thought the "Sirius sees Harry as James" is either overexaggerated or misunderstood (by characters in canon). The thing about Sirius is that he's one of the few people who are actually like family to Harry--the only Wizard. (Remus could have been, but because of his personality he's withdrawn politely back to "kindly interested adult".) So Sirius' reactions to Harry are more like family--part of that is James. He's bound up with the guy, sees himself as Harry's godfather, sees him as part of James and understands him in that context. That doesn't have to mean he wants James back and is living that fantasy through Harry--he really doesn't. Commenting on a way one is different from a parent, even if it's in a childish way (since Sirius is kind of pouting there) does not mean you don't know the difference. Sirius just seems to appear to do that to people because nobody else really cares about Harry's family. Slughorn does something similar with Lily, but nobody thinks he's confusing Harry with her.

[anehan]

Especially in the context of GoF, it doesn't make sense. Like violaswamp said above, Grimmauld shouldn't have messed with his head that much. It's one thing to be depressed because you're essentially a prisoner in a place you hate with nothing productive to do, and completely another thing to lose touch with reality.

I can see how Sirius might have thought of Harry as nothing but his last contact to James, especially after Azkaban, but why is there then no indication of that in GoF?

Commenting on a way one is different from a parent, even if it's in a childish way (since Sirius is kind of pouting there) does not mean you don't know the difference.

I think you just hit what bothers me about Sirius. It's not so much the James-connection--like you said, James is part of Harry and Sirius' relationship--but the childishness Sirius displays in OotP. I struggle to reconcile OotP!Sirius with GoF!Sirius. What happened during that month before Harry came to Grimmauld? Was Sirius kidnapped alongside Ginny?

[kaskait.livejournal.com]

Yes. That certainly explains why the heroes can do the horrible things they do and still have souls full of love and purity.

[romeoambiences.livejournal.com]

Sirius seems to be the kind of person who could have fallen in love with baby!Harry the moment he saw him. He was Harry's godfather,

--I was being a bit flippant. *sheepish grin* I actually agree with you.

Draco's totally the only one who had no clue whatsoever of who Harry was. He was just, "There's a cool guy over there! Dressed in rags! (Must be a mark of good breeding.) Let us be friends!" *loves Draco*
--This is what I meant. You just said it better.

[romeoambiences.livejournal.com]

it's always been interesting that literally none of Harry's friends ever met him with a clean slate, it's only Draco.

*nodnodnod* And why did JKR chose to write it this way? She could so easily have had Ron meet and strike up a conversation with Harry without knowing who he was, but, instead, everyone close to him approaches him either because he is Harry Potter or TBWL or both.

In my optimistic moments, I think this is surely has to be significant as far as the Draco/Harry relationship is concerned, but these moments are rained on by the black cloud of JKR's interviews.

[static-pixie.livejournal.com]

"There's a cool guy over there! Dressed in rags! (Must be a mark of good breeding.) Let us be friends!" *loves Draco*

That needs an icon. XD

I can see how Sirius might have thought of Harry as nothing but his last contact to James, especially after Azkaban, but why is there then no indication of that in GoF?

From like five comments ago. I think it had to do with the war starting up in earnest after GoF. His last and probably strongest memories of James are from the war, I'd think, and what with the Order starting back up, the two different time periods would have seemed a hell of a lot more similar in book 5 than they would have in book 4. James was never involved in a tournament the way that Harry was, so there was no real comparison there, but James was definitely a big part of the war and seeing Harry (Jame's twin) in there with the Order would probably, along with the fact that he was feeling left out and all that, have really reminded him of old times. Maybe not so much that he mixed the two up, but enough that he'd be disappointed if Harry didn't react to things like James did.

I never thought about how painful it must have been for Sirius and Lupin to have to see Harry all the time. Since he looks so much like James.

[static-pixie.livejournal.com]

It's just...weird. It was just a weird break-up in general (though no one in the H/G camp would ever acknowledge that it was anything but completely straight-forward, since that's totally Rowling's style :P) because Ginny never acknowledges having any real feelings for him (even while he's tripping all over himself to say, 'OMG,I LOVE YOU!') and then says that she likes him because of a quality she can only observe from afar. And she looks at Harry with a certain amount of expectation right before they break up, as though she wouldn't have expected any less of him. I think it's reasonable, though, for Ginny to think that he's noble without knowing him because she connects it to his always fighting Voldemort which is something she does know.

So I guess what JKR is going for is someone who'll always force Harry to live up to his potential because it's only when he lives up to that potential that she'll like him. Which is a horrible, horrible basis for any kind of relationship, not just a romantic one. And one she's totally belied with this book because he spent this whole book being 'normal Harry if there were no Dark Lord' and that Harry wasn't the person Ginny seems to like at all. So I can't see their having a relationship after Voldemort. I mean, he's miserable being this noble guy going off into battle and totally happy being the lazy school kid. Which I think she meant for us to see. But she also meant for us to like H/G....? I'm confused.

It's a paradox because as long as Harry is the hero he can't be with Ginny and she'll like him, but when he's done being the hero and can be with her, she won't want him because he's not chasing Voldemort.

[anehan]

I'm not sure I believe that the war would have changed his attitude that much--at least, I can see no evidence for that. I think it's more this feeling left out that you mention that could explain it. The most remarkable thing about Sirius in OotP is, IMO, the sense of futility. As if he doesn't have a purpose any more. In GoF, he had Harry to protect, and he could feel that he was doing something, but in OotP he was a prisoner of Grimmauld. (Damn you, Dumbledore.)

Sirius seems the kind of person who's got to be able to do something. Remember Snape's Pensieve? James started to torment Snape because Sirius was bored. I don't think something as sedentary and unexiting as reading would satisfy his need to do something, so anything he could do inside Grimmauld would be inadequate.

So yeah, frustration and the feeling of uselessness are the keys, I think, which is why Snape's taunts of cowardice probably infuriated him so much.

[merrymelody.livejournal.com]

It was just a weird break-up in general

Well, no part of H/G is ever going to resemble real life, since Ginny is essentially a mirror for Harry.
So she has to fit in the obligatory compliment to his nobility (since Rowling has trouble writing characters who might think outside the box, for example: 'Wow, yeah, it's so noble of you to take your "best comfort", don't worry about mine! Yes, a funeral is the best place to do this!'), mirroring this with her own ('I've always liked you because you fight Voldemort' - implication here that Ginny is so good she instinctively finds this attractive, even at ten.)
She won't cry because he finds that repulsive, and she won't question his decision because he hates that.
She'll note she doesn't care about her own life (just like Harry's selflessness, blah blah and of course making her a bravely brave Gryffindor), and she'll even flatter his ego by noting that her personality changes and dating other guys were for him, and meaningless, respectively.

I think it's reasonable, though, for Ginny to think that he's noble without knowing him because she connects it to his always fighting Voldemort which is something she does know.

Yeah, it's just not something that's really in-keeping with a relationship.
I mean, of course if you're dating a hero or heroine and they're noble and fight evil etc. then great, but you still have to deal with them on a personal level - them being great at saving people doesn't equal them being a great boy/girlfriend (in fact, it seems to tend towards the opposite, there are plenty of people IRL and in fiction who do amazing jobs and are total assholes in their personal lives.
I'd think it would be encouraged when to be physically brave, one would have to be constantly willing to risk themselves and die for the cause - could you fit that in with a family?
And of course, there's the whole macho thing, which doesn't mesh well with a relationship and sharing emotions.)
H/G have a bad enough start that he saved her life, which is fine for a traditional fairy story, but it sort of prevents equality, the very thing JKR claimed to have tried for.

he spent this whole book being 'normal Harry if there were no Dark Lord' and that Harry wasn't the person Ginny seems to like at all.

Really? I thought she seemed to adore HBP!Harry. They bonded over being jock assholes!

as long as Harry is the hero he can't be with Ginny and she'll like him, but when he's done being the hero and can be with her, she won't want him because he's not chasing Voldemort.

And of course with Ginny there's expectations to live up to, too - Harry likes you if you behave this way, he likes it if you change to become more what he likes, and he's very put off if you do things without putting his desires first - see Cho.
Of course, she'd never fail to live up to his expectations, being a cyborg, but still. Not a very romantic relationship!

[saylee.livejournal.com]

*There is no good and evil, only Gryffindor and Slytherin, which is a much clearer distinction.

Ah, but you're forgetting that good and evil correspond to Gryffindor and Slytherin, respectively.

*To have been loved so deeply will give us some protection forever. Which is kind of a misdirection again, because every kid in Harry’s class has probably been loved the same way he was as a baby. The special part is that whole strange spell that got cast because of the exact circumstances. Unless he’s suggesting that Quirrell couldn’t touch Ron, Hermione, Neville or any other kid in Harry’s class either.

How dare you suggest that ordinary parent could love as deeply as Saint Lily did!

*Apparently all the students know each other’s marks. That way our heroes can make judgments about others.

At least it makes Lucius knowing Hermione's marks in CoS make more sense.

And, for you, the Slytherin Thursday Night Poetry Slam:

It was the first Thursday of the school year, and the common room was packed. Even quiet Theo Nott was there tonight, sketching in the corner, a smirk tugging on the corner of his lips. Nearby, Daphne Greengrass sat with her legs over Tracey Davis' lap as the two passed a clove cigarette between them. On one of the couches, Vincent Crabbe was steadily painting his nails black, as Greg Goyle and Milicent Bulstrode argued over music for their band, Minions. Perched on a table, Pansy Parkinson was carefully applying purple lipstick in a mirror she had conjured.

Blaise Zabini looked up from where he was patiently trying to explain to a fourth year with heavy eyeliner, that, "No, my mom hasn't killed them all. She's just got really bad luck with relationships..." to snort, "I don't think that's your colour, Parkinson." SHe didn't even glance up, just rolled her eyes in the mirror as she flipped him off. He shrugged and returned to his conversation.

"What's going on?" a first year asked, sidling up to Pansy.

"Oh hey, squirt," she said, as she vanished her mirror, "This is a Slytherin tradition, it's..."

Her words were cut off as a spotlight snapped on suddenly to bathe a raised platform at one end of the room in bluish light. Black robes swirling from a well-placed wind charm, Professor Snape crossed the small stage, conjuring a microphone as he went.

"Welcome," he intoned, in his most dramatic voice, the one normally reserved for his introductory Potions speech, "To the Thursday Night Poetry Slam."

Things quickly got underway, and various students read their pieces. As Draco Malfoy took the stage, face serious, with a beret tilted just so on his fiar head, Pansy whispered to her first year, "He's the best in Slytherin. Except for Professor Snape, maybe. I hear Professor Snape taught him everything he knows."

Draco cleared his throat dramatically, and in the expectant silence before he began to speak, Miles Bletchley hissed in Brandon Vaisey's ear, "If this is another piece about how much he hates Potter, I may be forced to shoot myself. I can't stand love poetry."