[personal profile] oryx_leucoryx
I have been toying with the scenarios here for a long time, but got stuck in ways I could not resolve. So I decided to start posting and see if members of this list can help develop them.

In a previous post I claimed that Harry's luck in winning over Voldemort and surviving came from the work of the Prophecy Demons, hypothesized to be capricious mini-deities who run certain aspects of the Potterverse, especially those that have to do with 'ancient magic', the more mystical aspects of Potterverse magic. Others have proposed that one way these Demons interfere in events is by sending prophecies and then manipulating the fortunes of people who make choices based on knowledge of said prophecies. The rule is that a prophecy that is heard may come true in more than one way, and it ends up unrolling such that both those that seek to benefit from the prophecy coming true and those who seek to avert it fair badly, and it turns out the best line of action is always to do nothing at all based on the prophecy (but who can withstand the temptation?)

In this series I would like to try to work out how events would have turned out had one factor been different: In this case, had Severus Snape decided against reporting the overheard prophecy to Voldemort.

Terri Testing has a fic on her LiveJournal named 'Levicorpus' that starts this out: Severus realizes expecting to benefit from reporting a prophecy is a terrible move that could bite him and those he cares about, so instead he decides to Obliviate a small segment of his memory, just the overheard prophecy, before he goes back to Voldemort to report his failure to get a teaching job. In her fic the first consequence of this choice is Lily using a contraceptive charm in time to prevent Harry from being conceived, though of course, an alternative consequence might have been that Lily's pregnancy lasted a few days longer and Harry was born in early August instead - both scenarios are compatible with the Demons deciding not to punish Severus with the responsibility for Lily's death. In the discussion one idea that came up was that Severus realized he wanted Voldemort vanquished, in which case his most likely option would be to work with the DMLE somehow, with them being the legitimate anti-Voldemort force.

So here are some ideas I had to continue this scenario. There are many holes that need filling, and you are all invited to contribute.

Albus, expecting Severus to deliver the prophecy, would still hire Sybil as in canon, and would report the prophecy to the Department of Mysteries. Where Death Eater Rookwood works. In canon he probably never reported anything about the prophecy to Voldemort prior to the Godric's Hollow attack (or if he did, then for whatever reason Tom was convinced the fragment he heard from Severus was enough for his plans), but in this scenario luck might intervene. Rookwood might alert Tom to the fact that there is a new prophecy record labeled 'Dark Lord and ?' that only the Dark Lord himself can remove from the shelf. The date of the record would match the date of Severus' failed job interview. If Tom were to interrogate Severus he might find that Severus saw Albus going to meet with Sybil and was caught by Aberforth. He might at some point think the prophecy was delivered there, despite the fact that Severus retained no memory of that happening. So if Tom wants to know the contents of the prophecy his options are - go himself to the Department of Mysteries (he might try some other options first, such as possessing someone else, or he might try going there in disguise), or perhaps getting at Sybil (during summer break, when she is out of school?) or Aberforthn (Albus is clearly out of the question, I'm pretty sure). I think the Aberforth option is the only one that has the chance of delivering only part of the prophecy (without the 'and the Dark Lord shall mark him as his equal' part), and I fear for his eventual fate if that's how Tom decides to access the contents of the prophecy. If Tom hears the entire prophecy, would he still feel confident to attack the prophesied one? Is there a scenario where he gets the prophecy record (or Sybil) but still hears only part of the prophecy? Hmm. In the DOM battle, when prophecy records break we don't hear the entire prophecies do we? So maybe Voldemort gets the Prophecy record, but the Demons intervene to have him drop it, so he only hears a select part of it? (I am warming up to this scenario - frustrated Dark Lord with nobody to blame but himself.)

If Tom decides to act to avert the prophecy his most likely candidate in this AU would be Neville. We can't assume a scenario involving the Longbottoms would evolve the same as the canon scenario involving the Potters, because these are different people with different circumstances. Frank and Alice were trained Aurors, and whatever we think of Frank, there is no basis to assume he was part of a closed group that had been hiding things from Albus since school days. Frank and Alice were likely very close to Moody, who in turn was Albus' right-hand man and chief of operations within the Order. (He stands next to Albus in the photo, he runs the rota for guarding the DOM in OOTP, he runs Harry's removal from 4PD in OOTP and DH.) So the Longbottoms would be more likely to follow whatever plan Albus proposes for their safety. Also, as trained Aurors they would be more disciplined in sticking to whichever line of action is chosen. And Tom's spy within the Order is still Peter, who is not close to the Longbottoms and has no influence on them. So if Albus proposes to be their Secret Keeper they would take the offer and stick to it.

In that case the Demons would be somewhat limited, but there is still a way for the protection of the Longbottoms to be compromised: We know that the death of the Secret Keeper turns all those who know the Secret into Secret Keepers. So if the Demons want to give Tom an opening to attempt at averting the prophecy they can get Albus to die. It can be just a simple medical issue, unrelated to the war. (In which case the Elder Wand ends up masterless.) Or it could happen in a way that is more causally related to his role in letting the prophecy out - any ideas? Suddenly all the Longbottoms' close friends and family, whoever they had requested to be included in the knowledge of their secret, can reveal their location if they are captured and interrogated by Tom, or if a DE holds onto them as they Apparate to the Longbottom home - plenty of scenarios where the Longbottoms can be attacked by surprise despite following best security practices as known to them.

Back to Severus: Let's say he starts spying on Tom and the Death Eaters for the Ministry. I expect Crouch's DMLE to be more pragmatic than Albus in utilizing Severus' information, including the existence of the Dark Mark, so perhaps some arrests of DEs happen earlier than in canon, and at least while Tom exists in his original body these DEs are less likely to be able to talk their way out of Azkaban, the way Bella did at some point in canon (unless she managed to blackmail Crouch with a threat that someone was going to expose his son?).

At some point Tom would want Severus to apply for the DADA position at Hogwarts once more. Goal number one would be to obtain the sword of Gryffindor for Tom's last intended Horcrux. This likely happens while Albus is still alive. Albus would know that Tom has a collection of ancient wizarding objects (though he still has no idea what for) so if he suspects that DE Severus is after the sword he would find a way to let Severus steal a fake sword. It is possible that after getting the (fake) sword Tom would assign Severus to kill Albus (which would in turn release the Secret of the Longbottoms' location), and either this happens (making Severus the unknowing master of the Elder Wand) or Severus is somehow suspected in Albus' death regardless of his actual responsibility - either scenario would force him to leave the school. (Which scenario do the Demons prefer? I think Severus should be in their good books for his choice to suppress the prophecy, so perhaps they wouldn't push him too hard to rip his soul) I hope he can clear his name or at least avoid a prison sentence, because there is so much he can do via the Ministry (and I really don't want him in Azkaban, please no!). We see in Igor's hearing that Crouch was more than willing to cut deals with known murderers if it served him, so I see an opening for Severus here, even if he does serve some time (or perhaps Crouch avoids his imprisonment but holds it over Severus' head as a threat, sounds like him?)

With an intended Horcrux object and access to the Longbottoms Tom would plan his attack - probably shortly after Albus' death, while both Hogwarts and the Order are still in a state of confusion. I do not know what would cause him to give one or both of the Longbottoms a chance to sacrifice themselves and how that takes place rather than the 2 of them dying while dueling in a 'fair' fight, but somehow Neville ends up as a child-Horcrux, marked as Tom's equal, while Tom discorporates. Without Albus around to interfere, Neville is raised by his remaining relatives. (Does Wizarding Britain celebrate Neville Longbottom Day, or is it Frank and Alice Longbottom Day?)

OK, what do you think? Does this make sense? Any ideas for improvements?
sunnyskywalker: Drawing of groovy Alderaani citizen with text "Spandex jackets (one for everyone)" (SpandexJackets)
[personal profile] sunnyskywalker
Now that we have this shiny new Dreamwidth edition of DTCL, I thought we ought to inaugurate it with shiny new content! Well, it's new, anyway. Good comments might make it shiny ;-)

So, thought experiment time! One of Jodel’s Red Hen essays noted that if Rowling wanted half-baked WWII parallels, the series might work better if it were actually set between World Wars. The series already has a sense of “past-ness” (jolly good boarding school romps, Molly Weasley knitting and talking about “scarlet women”), and we hardly spend any time in the Muggle world anyway, so brief mentions of Muggle technology could easily be changed to accommodate a 1930s setting. But that's just a couple of surface details. What else would have to change, and would it work? Read more... )
sunnyskywalker: Young Beru Lars from Attack of the Clones; text "Sunnyskywalker" (Default)
[personal profile] sunnyskywalker
I'm re-reading PS/SS, specifically paying attention to things which are part of the overall 7-book plot but which Harry (and we, back in the day) didn't have enough information to flag as relevant. Absolutely fascinating, and I'm sure I'll be posting about some of that soon. This isn't that time, or not exactly. I was also paying closer attention to wizard/Muggle relations, and so I stopped at this little exchange:

"And you could ask your parents if they know who Flamel is," said Ron. "It'd be safe to ask them."

"Very safe, as they're both dentists," said Hermione.


I can't help but picture the AU where she does ask, and her father says, "Flamel? Wasn't there something about him in that history program on the telly last night?" And her mother replies, "Yes, something about alchemy, wasn't it? Was he really a wizard, Hermione dear? How exciting!" And then Hermione comes back after the break all bright-eyed, very pleased as she shows the boys her photocopies of Flamel's entry in her Muggle library's encyclopedia. "No wonder he wasn't in any of the books on modern magical discoveries, he was born so long ago that witches and wizards still lived openly among Muggles, can you imagine? Do you think alchemists can really make a Philosopher's Stone?" Which reminds Harry of Flamel and Dumbledore's alchemical partnership on the Chocolate Frog Card, and off they go.

The schedule of events would hardly be different from the actual book, but the kids would have discovered that Muggles aren't just helpless, pitiable lumps. Wouldn't that have been something.
sunnyskywalker: Young Beru Lars from Attack of the Clones; text "Sunnyskywalker" (Default)
[personal profile] sunnyskywalker
Good to know other people out there are also still analyzing the series and not finding the ending satisfying!

The Awesome Harry Potter ending JK Rowling didn't even know she had

The quick version for everyone who doesn't want to click through: a reasonable twist interpretation of "either must die at the hand of the other" is that in order to die, Harry or Voldemort must die at the hand of the other--that is, there isn't any other way for them to die. So by killing Voldemort, Harry loses any chance of ever dying himself and becomes forever The Boy Who Lived... which means that he sacrifices any chance of being reunited with his dead friends and family in the wizarding afterlife.

I have to say, this one hadn't occurred to me, but it's an interesting idea, assuming you could get the mechanics to work well enough not to distract from the drama. I'll have to give it some more thought. Immortal!Harry might be a little too terrifying an ending...
[identity profile] condwiramurs.livejournal.com
Sunnyskywalker's last post inspired me to do a bit of thinking about our dear Voldie and to play with what-ifs. So let me put the question out there: what do you think would have happened had Voldie been a competent Dark Lord? How would the war(s) have been different - what would Voldemort and the DEs done differently? And, let's say he won or at least managed to hang onto power for a substantial length of time (perhaps Harry vanished mysteriously? Or died somehow?), so what would the WW have been like under a competent Dark Lord?

Some ideas:

- perhaps Voldemort would have made much greater use of the Dementors during the war. (Given Jodel's theory that his fear of death and psychopathy were caused by Dementor-haunting during his infancy, it could be very interesting to posit a connection between him and the Dementors, or their using each other - the Dementors maybe wanting a better bargain that what they've currently got....) This might have had particular consequences for Harry and his role in things.

- Voldemort might have softpedaled the Muggleborn angle where necessary, and/or brought up other issues that were of concern to a greater segment of the populace - perhaps the savage ridiculousness of condemning people to insanity-inducing torment for small crimes? (There is apparently only the one prison, after all.) Economic issues? - They have to pay for Hogwarts and the Ministry somehow, so that means taxes. Also possible restrictions on what can be done with cheaper mundane goods. Annoyances over restrictions on kinds of magic/objects allowed (ex. dark in the 'non-crude' sense Xenophilius mentions)? Concerns with other magical populations, human and not? And so on.

- Together with the above, more public rallies/demonstrations/leaflets/articles in the Prophet designed to gain sympathy from the public?

- After victory, how would he gain the loyalty of the public? One thing I suggested in comments to the earlier article was some sort of bread-and-circuses deal like the Nazi Strength Through Joy program. Trips, sporting events, medals to earn, useful goods?

- How would daily life have changed, including been curtailed? Censorship of the Prophet and other publications is an easy one - though perhaps putting out a rival and *better* publication might be another thing the DE government could do. (And Voldie would employ a competent and non-terrifying staff for the 'front desk' jobs.)

- How would the staff of Hogwarts, St Mungo's, etc. change?

- Did Voldie really want to break Secrecy? If not, how would that impact the WW? If so, how does he manage the other international governments bound by it, and how does the actual announcement go? What does the world look like then?

Anyway, some questions to play with!
sunnyskywalker: Young Beru Lars from Attack of the Clones; text "Sunnyskywalker" (Default)
[personal profile] sunnyskywalker
Last December, [livejournal.com profile] charlottehywd asked if there was a list of things that would make Voldemort a more effective villain. I figured there's no better place to compile one!

Some initial ideas to kick things off:

  • He could have Apparated into the Potters' house right past the anti-Apparition wards which would stop any normal wizard.
  • He could have actually killed Arthur with Nagini.
  • He could have arrested one or more Weasleys in DH and released stories about how they were being subjected to "enhanced interrogation techniques" on suspicion of blood treason in the Daily Prophet to lure Harry out. (Hey, dangling a loved one as bait worked on the kid before, why not give it another shot? It's not like it'll cost Voldemort much even if it doesn't work.)
  • He could have Imperiused someone close to Harry - Ron, Hermione, Lupin, Molly - making it hard for Harry to know whom to trust.
  • He could have turned someone close to Harry to his side by other means, either coercion or brilliant manipulation.
  • He could have unleashed the Inferi instead of leaving them boxed up in the garage.
  • We could have seen more of the damage the Dementors caused after they went AWOL after the DE breakout from Azkaban.

    I'd love to hear more ideas!
  • [identity profile] oneandthetruth.livejournal.com
    When I was a kid, one of my favorite TV shows was the silly spy satire, Get Smart. Junior moralist and social reformer that I was, my favorite part of the show was always at the end, when Maxwell Smart (Don Adams) would muse, after defeating the bad guy, “If only he’d used his abilities for niceness instead of evil.” (Italics in original)

    I recently read the excellent book, God’s Politics: Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the Left Doesn’t Get It, by Jim Wallis. An evangelical minister(1), Wallis is one of the founders of Sojourners Magazine (available on the Internet at sojo.net) and a promoter of “prophetic politics.” He points out that all the great American social movements, such as the abolition of slavery, women’s suffrage, and the civil rights movement, were born out of Christian beliefs and led by believers. He adds that biblical prophets such as Isaiah and Amos were the social critics of their day who weren’t afraid to stand up to the rich and powerful and demand justice for the poor and oppressed. Wallis writes:Read more... )
    [personal profile] oryx_leucoryx
    So here is an idea for an AU scenario. Anyone is free to develop it into a fic, but we can just discuss the what-if:

    Sometime between November 2nd 1981 and July 1991 Albus Dumbledore died suddenly. Maybe in some magical mishap, maybe a sudden heart attack, whatever. The important bit is he didn't expect this to happen and had no time to do any ad-hoc cover-ups nor did he have a chance to influence the choice of his replacement or to incorporate his death into some plot. The permanent replacement is chosen by the Board of Governors. If this happens early enough Lucius isn't yet on the board, if later he is on, but probably still trying to earn a reputation as an outstanding member of society who would have never joined forces with Voldemort willingly so I don't think he'd support anyone blatantly against the inclusion of Muggleborns. Anyway, the replacement turns out to be someone not as outwardly impressive as Dumbles - not so showy, with perhaps average or slightly above average magical performance, but a capable administrator with good organizational and interpersonal skills, but most importantly someone who cares about the students' well-being and education. It can be someone from Slughorn's network or even someone who thought well of Albus as long as s/he didn't have a chance to look too closely at how Hogwarts was run, but definitely not an Order member or any other close associate of Dumbles. Maybe an older, more experienced and less idealistic version of Percy.

    The members of the Hogwarts staff are as we know them in PS (Care of Magical Creatures is taught by Kettleburn, Hagrid is still a groundskeeper), except for DADA. Depending on timing, Quirrell might be the Muggle Studies teacher. I think the DADA curse should still be active, so the teachers are still being replaced annually (we don't want the new school Head to have it too easy).

    So I think this new person shows up and tries to run Hogwarts like a normal school. Some teachers object because that's not the way it was always done, some are relieved to have a professional in charge for a change. The handling of disciplinary matters changes. The inter-House politics change.

    And then in the summer of 1991 Quirrell comes back from a sabbatical with a personally transplant. And one Harry Potter oddly doesn't reply to his acceptance letter to Hogwarts. (I doubt the new Head had a reason to look into Harry's situation of hir own initiative earlier, but maybe someone can make a convincing argument for that?) So what now?
    [identity profile] sweettalkeress.livejournal.com
    So I was following this rather lively discussion on my latest post and I got to thinking about a possible AU in which Lily had died giving birth to Harry (i.e., in addition to or instead of that whole Merope thing). We all know the situations between Harry's and Voldie's mothers weren't analogous (a fact that seems to have sailed clear over Rowling's head) but what if they were? What if Harry's mother had suffered exactly the same fate as Merope's (with the possible exception of the inbreeding part)- or alternatively, what if Voldemort's mother had died in some other fashion? How do you think the conversation between Harry and Dumbledore would be different if this had been the case? Ideas?

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